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Thread: Should we now move towards making All Consensual Activities Legal in Ireland ?

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    Lightbulb Should we now move towards making All Consensual Activities Legal in Ireland ?

    Should we now move towards making all consensual activities legal in Ireland ?
    (For people who have reached the legal age of consent)

    Some examples would be :

    Individual purchase and consumption of recreational drugs (provided one does not hurt anyone else due to the effects)
    Selling sex and/or soliciting for sex
    Euthanasia
    Polygamy (gay and straight)
    Public nudity and public sex (e.g. providing there are no witnesses that have not consented; e.g. dogging)
    Sibling sexual relations
    Any form of pornography (not involving coercion, or those under the age of consent)

    Any other examples ?

    And what should the legal age of consent be for these activities ?

    Perhaps the much touted constitutional convention should be looking at this ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerubbabel View Post
    Should we now move towards making all consensual activities legal in Ireland ?
    (For people who have reached the legal age of consent)

    Some examples would be :

    Individual purchase and consumption of recreational drugs (provided one does not hurt anyone else due to the effects)
    Selling sex and/or soliciting for sex
    Euthanasia
    Polygamy (gay and straight)
    Public nudity and public sex (e.g. providing there are no witnesses that have not consented; e.g. dogging)
    Sibling sexual relations
    Any form of pornography (not involving coercion, or those under the age of consent)

    Any other examples ?

    And what should the legal age of consent be for these activities ?

    Perhaps the much touted constitutional convention should be looking at this ?
    A strict Right libertarian while not neccessarily agreeing with the above, would hold the view that the only legitimate function of government is the protection of persons from fraud or coercion as well as their property rights, and enforcement of contracts.

    Most on the broader libertarian/classical liberal spectrum would favour additional interventions at the local level, so they would be in favour of increased local autonomy for local government which might decide to pass anti-nudity laws or anti kerb crawling laws etc.
    Last edited by pragmaticapproach; 24th March 2013 at 07:10 PM.

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    Politics.ie Member eoghanacht's Avatar
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    Fundies: They spend an inordinate amount of time worrying what other adults are getting up too.


    Perfectly innocent of course.
    Britain operated death squads - ''97% of the Loyalists I interviewed were working directly for the State.'' - Nuala O'Loan. #FreeAhedTamimi

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    Quote Originally Posted by eoghanacht View Post
    Fundies: They spend an inordinate amount of time worrying what other adults are getting up too.


    Perfectly innocent of course.
    From a taxpayers point of view, the Gardai, the legal services and the state do so as well. Should they ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerubbabel View Post
    From a taxpayers point of view, the Gardai, the legal services and the state do so as well. Should they ?
    Seems fine to me - I see no reason to legislate for any of these issues, except on the question of age.

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    Consent and personal autonomy should be protected to an extent, but both have limits. Can a man consent to serious harm to himself? What position should the concept of innate human dignity hold in this area?

    I argue that certain things should not be decriminalized on the basis of apparent consent. Some people might not be truly capable of giving true consent. Others should not be allowed to consent to things which are contrary to human dignity and to the duty of others not to do harm (we might use deontological ethics and Mill's 'Harm Principle' in this area - neither of which I accept as a guide to moral action, but both could be useful for distinguishing what should be criminal as distinct from moral).

    Should a man (as has happened) be allowed to consent to another man cooking and eating him? Even if we assume the consent is informed and real, there is a duty on the other man not to do harm - he should not be allowed to get away with something so heinous. So where is the line drawn? I would argue at the point of serious harm - psychological, physical, or to human dignity. The Brown case in England is borderline - where men were nailing each other's genitals to objects and so on. I think it crosses the line (and so did the court) into negativing consent and being contrary to the protection of human dignity. Others disagree, and it is a tough case. But nonetheless there should be a line somewhere, one beyond which consent can not be allowed to excuse criminal behaviour.

    In relation to prostitution - there are issues of drug addiction, trafficking, vulnerability, etc., which also raise questions of human dignity and the limits of consent. Again, I'd be pretty restrictive in this regard. There is a case for decriminalization of prostitution (immoral though I believe it to be) where there is guaranteed mutual consent - but how can that be guaranteed? How many men who use prostitutes inquire deeply (or are even bothered) about the nature of the consent being offered, the mental health of the woman, the chances of her being forced to do what she is doing against her will and under duress? Few, I should think. So I'd take a pretty tough line on the issue of consent in those cases.

    So there is a balance to be struck between respecting personal autonomy/avoiding excessive criminalization and respect for human dignity and recognition of the limits of consent.

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    I'd like to see a poll done on this, any way to attach a poll to a thread ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerubbabel View Post
    Should we now move towards making all consensual activities legal in Ireland ?
    (For people who have reached the legal age of consent)

    Some examples would be :

    Individual purchase and consumption of recreational drugs (provided one does not hurt anyone else due to the effects)
    Selling sex and/or soliciting for sex
    Euthanasia
    Polygamy (gay and straight)
    Public nudity and public sex (e.g. providing there are no witnesses that have not consented; e.g. dogging)
    Sibling sexual relations
    Any form of pornography (not involving coercion, or those under the age of consent)

    Any other examples ?

    And what should the legal age of consent be for these activities ?

    Perhaps the much touted constitutional convention should be looking at this ?
    Some examples of the libertarian approach.






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    Politics.ie Member eoghanacht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerubbabel View Post
    Should we now move towards making all consensual activities legal in Ireland ?
    (For people who have reached the legal age of consent)

    Some examples would be :

    Individual purchase and consumption of recreational drugs (provided one does not hurt anyone else due to the effects)
    The State doesn't care about the effects of alcohol abuse on others, why introduce such a measure when talking about legalisation of drugs?

    Selling sex and/or soliciting for sex
    Absolutely, if two or more consenting adults can reach an agreement where one or more wants to pay/buy sex then why not?

    Euthanasia
    I hope so, last thing I want to do is spend the last decade of my life in a vegetative state, a burden on the state and those who love me.

    Polygamy (gay and straight)
    Whatever you're having yourself, stupid enough to get married in the first place then by all means compound the problem. It's your right as an adult.

    Public nudity and public sex (e.g. providing there are no witnesses that have not consented; e.g. dogging)
    Providing it's not down the local park, in front of children and it floats your boat.

    Sibling sexual relations
    Just don't expect the state to pick up the tab if their are any birth defects.

    Any form of pornography (not involving coercion, or those under the age of consent)
    Already available

    Any other examples ?
    Allowing people with imaginary bronze age, middle eastern, thunder gods dictate how others should lead their lives, check
    Britain operated death squads - ''97% of the Loyalists I interviewed were working directly for the State.'' - Nuala O'Loan. #FreeAhedTamimi

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    Politics.ie Member YongHoi's Avatar
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    Should a man (as has happened) be allowed to consent to another man cooking and eating him? Even if we assume the consent is informed and real, there is a duty on the other man not to do harm - he should not be allowed to get away with something so heinous.
    Before being cooked and eaten the guy was killed, right?
    That's murder. No consent grants immunity to that act.
    Bad example.
    Just sayin.
    Carry on.

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