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Thread: Why, as an athiest, perhaps, lapsed/pissed off catholic, Papa Francisco gives me some hope

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    Politics.ie Member corelli's Avatar
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    Default Why, as an athiest, perhaps, lapsed/pissed off catholic, Papa Francisco gives me some hope

    Right, just speaking for myself, this is how I view matters generally.

    I am a putative christian, in that I believe in the christian ideal, that you help the less well off/those who are persecuted and/or discriminated against, without question. I accept everyone as my brothe/sister, without exception. I fully realise that the RC Church have a way to come in that regard, so I am keeping my distance, pro-tem.

    I also am a student of history, recent, and particularly, of the Holy See/Vatican.

    If you have a slight knowledge of recent Papal history you will realise that, to recent date, "Francis" is more of a "Johannes"/"John XXIII"/John Paul I, then a John Paul II or a Benedict XVI. That is a good thing.

    Some simple examples.

    John XXIII replaced the austere and, very, magesterial, Pius XII. He was fat, short and pretty down to earth. He called Vatican II. John, that is .

    Francis has replaced the very magesterial and austere Benedict. With the greatest will in the world, he, Benedict, was incapable of communicating outside of very select thelogical circles. He was also, lets not pretend, very fond of dressing up in all the liturgical finery. A lot of the pontifical dress that was popular/worn pre Vatican II saw a return. Be it the ermine/fur trimmed Mozetta, (the purple short cape worn over the white "cassock" and lace "rochet" which, in his wildest days, John Paul II would never have worn, or the, equally, fur trimmed, cap, known as the "camuro", both of which Benedict re-introduced. Of course, best known, is the "shoes of the fisherman" or the traditional red shoes which Benedict re-introduced with a bang. John Paul II, in fairness, wore pretty bog standard brown slip-ons.

    What have we with Francis?

    Bog standard black shoes and socks, aparently given to him before leaving Argentina for Conclave, as his own pair were pretty past use.

    No rochet or mozetta on the balcony of St. Peters upon election. He even refused to intone the latin benediction. That, for any student of these things, is a huge slap in the face for the old fashioned "tridentine" groupings that Benedict had sought to support and re-introduce into the mainstream. Take it as read that the "old latin mass", and its supporters, with all its associated dressing up, is dead in this pontificate. The use of Latin is also dead. Benedict gave his important sermons in the old language. Francis uses the vernacular and seems ill disposed to Latin, given, lets be honest, no bugger outside the Vatican uses it anymore.

    John Paul I was the first to refuse the "Coronation" withe the "tripple crown", or Tiregnum, and also the first to walk on his own two feet, forgoing, but not always, the old papal chair, which was carried aloft by the "gentleman of his Holiness". Francis seems insistant on meeting and greeting people there to meet him. No secutiry considerations bother him, much to the annoyance of his security team, according to the Italian press. Of course, bitched to by the Curia who know he is going to, shortly, give them a royal shafting.

    I will add to this tomorrow, but it's way late!!
    "......... we must sometimes listen to those who, consumed with zeal, have scant judgment or balance. To such ones the modern world is nothing but betrayal and ruin.........We feel bound to disagree with these prophets of doom who are forever forecasting calamity -- as though the world's end were imminent."

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    JPII as well as BXVI struck me as undisiplined intellectuals, the kind of people who see talking as a virtue....I don't share that perspective. It's too early to tell regarding Francis I....but if he believes Truth can be known and not just talked about....he could be a game changer....we'll see.

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    Who God turn his or her's back

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    Moderator NYCKY's Avatar
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    Corelli, I feel your OP is a bit over the top. You are coming across as someone is pissed rather than a pissed off Catholic. In fairness I can't disagree with much of what you say but not sure it's worthy of it's own thread. The Pope is wearing different socks than his predecessors and plains shoes, woohoo.

    Let's not get carried away just yet. I agree that symbolism matters but it's early days and let's give it a bit more time for his papacy to flesh out (and hopefully flushout too).

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    Politics.ie Member Boy M5's Avatar
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    The BBC News channel last night showed that he shares his daily mass with the Vatican staff.
    Ratzi is a Holy man who wasn't inneffectual but wasn't a politican and a debilitated JPII left an over strong Curia. He was strong enough to stand down for a man vigorous man.
    "Keep firing & don't stop until I tell you" General Tom Barry

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    Ok Correlli you have my full attention (genuinely) so please do continue. I will reserve comment until you have completed your post.

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    Oh dear me. What a thread!

    As an Atheist, I think very deeply indeed that all the successors to St Peter (Simon the Jew) hold back the intellectual development of Billions of people throughout the world.

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    Politics.ie Member LamportsEdge's Avatar
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    May I ask the OP why he as a mod (I believe) has launched this musing in the Culture and Community thread?

    Will it be okay then if I launch a thread explaining why the mediterranean cult emanations he speaks of isn't actually native to Ireland?

    The urine is being extracted now in no uncertain measure with these blatantly proselytising threads for a particular religious sect on this forum. And if I am right the mods are not only waving it through either through ignorance or deliberate technique but actually indulging in it themselves.

    These threads are launched specifically to allow proselytizing for a particular sect.
    Whenever understanding exists, accepting or rejecting is unnecessary. (Fundamentals of a Gnostic Education).

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    Politics.ie Member greengoose2's Avatar
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    Thank God I'm an atheist!

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    Politics.ie Member Dublin 4's Avatar
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    Cor - when you have "hope" I get worries

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