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Thread: More justifiable: PIRA or OIRA campaign?

  1. #1

    Default More justifiable: PIRA or OIRA campaign?

    With iterations of the political wings of both organizations (SF in the north, and sticky-controlled Labour in the south) in Government on both sides of the border, is the time right to appraise the aims and methods of both the OIRA and the PIRA in relation to one another, given that the split was for ideological, tactical and strategic visions. Did either organization achieve what it set out to do? To what extent did their purposes change?

    Was the split even necessary in the end? The Shinners seem to have come to the same conclusions the Stickies did about the legitimacy of NI etc, only several decades later. Makes you wonder if any of the feuding and death even meant anything in the end

  2. #2
    Ramps
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    The taking of human life is only justified in the most grave of circumstances AND where there is no peaceful alternative, even if that route is slow and tedious. Violence in Ireland, north and south, was never justified, in my opinion, since Irish people had political avenues open to them and never faced injustices on a scale that required killing and maiming.

    Both versions of the IRA learned this eventually. Violence always brings unforeseen bitterness and division.

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    Politics.ie Member irishpancake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramps View Post
    The taking of human life is only justified in the most grave of circumstances AND where there is no peaceful alternative, even if that route is slow and tedious. Violence in Ireland, north and south, was never justified, in my opinion, since Irish people had political avenues open to them and never faced injustices on a scale that required killing and maiming.

    Both versions of the IRA learned this eventually. Violence always brings unforeseen bitterness and division.
    And what then of the Real OIRA....





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    Ramps
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishpancake View Post
    And what then of the Real OIRA....




    Unjustified also. If MLK was happy to use peaceful methods to remedy the injustices those he represented faced, then I think Irish people could have done the same.

    Note: I think you could reasonably defend those who used violence in the very early days of the Troubles in NI, when the situation was very volatile and the State's response was inadequate; but I differentiate between those "defensive" actions and the muderous campaign to bring about a UI against the wishes of the majority of people in NI that later emerged.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramps View Post
    The taking of human life is only justified in the most grave of circumstances AND where there is no peaceful alternative, even if that route is slow and tedious. Violence in Ireland, north and south, was never justified, in my opinion, since Irish people had political avenues open to them and never faced injustices on a scale that required killing and maiming.

    Both versions of the IRA learned this eventually. Violence always brings unforeseen bitterness and division.
    Romantics illusion I'm afraid. The achievement of an Irish Republic would not have happened only for armed violence. As for the North, when the two were one IRA the arguement was made not to move arms into the north, but the continued violence of state oppression and UVF bombs and sectarian murders, meant the people up there needed defending.

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    Politics.ie Member ned green's Avatar
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    Both wings appear very comfortable in government,the Provos share power in Stormont with the DUP,and the Stickies are enjoying the trappings of power alongside their Blueshirt partners in the Dail.Its a pity that both are implementing cutbacks and austerity in both jurisdictions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bye bye mubarak View Post
    Romantics illusion I'm afraid. The achievement of an Irish Republic would not have happened only for armed violence. As for the North, when the two were one IRA the arguement was made not to move arms into the north, but the continued violence of state oppression and UVF bombs and sectarian murders, meant the people up there needed defending.

    In 1969 Goulding had been persuaded by the Communist Party line that moderate demands for civil rights would unite the working class. Some of those geniuses as late as 1968 were describing Paisleyism as a potentially 'progressive' element because they were breaking up the Unionist party! They also blamed the 'ultra leftists' in Peoples Democracy and 'right wing Catholics' for the violence and for having 'provoked' the loyalists

    In fairness when this was exposed as a crock of snake oil, the stickies did attempt some form of resistance alongside the more effective Provos but the Stalinist contagion had taken too deep a hold by that stage and they were more interested in killing other republicans than taking on the Brits and continued to do that for years after their so-called ceasefire which applied to no-body except the Brits and the loyalist death squads.

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    But they still came to the same conclusions in fairness. SF and DL anyway (perhaps not the WP) aren't a million miles away from each other in terms of anything really, are they?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bye bye mubarak View Post
    The achievement of an Irish Republic would not have happened only for armed violence.
    Nonsense. It just would have taken longer.

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    Politics.ie Member Ireniall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bye bye mubarak View Post
    Romantics illusion I'm afraid. The achievement of an Irish Republic would not have happened only for armed violence. As for the North, when the two were one IRA the arguement was made not to move arms into the north, but the continued violence of state oppression and UVF bombs and sectarian murders, meant the people up there needed defending.
    Certainly a self governing Ireland was an achievement but the Republic was declared by a bunch of right-wing ultra -Catholics in cohoots with a deluded supposedly leftwing party whose members thought you could be a Republican while putting your loyalty to your church ahead of your loyalty to the nation-the mind boggles.No thought was given to the fact that this further distanced us from the goal of uniting Ireland some day and is a fair indication of how far down the list of priorities this was for these Rome Rulers especially as FF had refrained from doing so for that very reason.Harry W has put his finger on it recently when he said that FG ,being challenged on their Republican credentials ,decided to play the green card in the hope of improving their image in this regard.Sordid stuff.

    The whole Republican agenda,despite its declared aims,has resulted in what could be the permanent division of Ireland into two political entities.I can imagine that after a century of attempting to get our own government here there was a huge sense of relief that it had finally come for most of the country-almost that we could breathe again having devoted so much of our political effort to its achievement.But the unquestioning acceptance of the Republican side of the story has resulted in their being so confident of their righteousness that they dont need the permission of the people to wage war -against our fellow Irish no less.Whatever about the Rome Rulers the Republicans are way out ahead when it comes to sowing the seeds of division on our island.

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