Follow @PoliticsIE
 
 
 
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21

Thread: The European economic crisis - individual responsibility can only be stretched so far.

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Member duthealla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,821
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default The European economic crisis - individual responsibility can only be stretched so far.

    Hasn't the Cyprus debacle been informative. Everyone finger pointing trying to implicate each other. Nobody wanting to say they tried bullyin Cyprus instead it was an experiment on whether contagion spreads when the country is differentiated enough and sure aren't they Russian mobsters anyhow.

    Its typical of what we've heard for years now. You the individual are entirely responsible.

    We know the Spanish are responsible because they are feckless and corrupt spendthrifts who wasted good money on a huge housing boom and spent recklessly even if they generally didn't run deficits and had low debt to GDB. They and they alone are responsible. 5 million unemployed - sure that's their own making

    We know our fine leader Enda Kenny feels that the Irish and the Irish alone are responsible for the crisis. He even went to Davos and told the World economic forum that "What happened in our country was that people simply went mad borrowing." Old Paddy lost the run of himself as Enda might say. Over 14% unemployment with no chance of it going down. That's you call Padraig you made that bed.

    Those feckless Greeks well sure they lied about their banks, nobody pays taxes and its all a mess. 26% unemployment. Serves your right Stavros you should have been like our German friends

    The Portuguese never adapted to living in a democracy, have no idea about running an effective economy and seem reluctant to really implement austerity and win over confidence.

    The Cypriots are Russian mafia pawns - nobody to blame but themselves. You can break the law with people who know no rule of law.

    The Italians are on the list as well - political comedians. They and they alone are responsible for a situation where 1000 businesses a day are failing, where liquidity has vanished, and job prospects or support for young families is nearly non-existent.

    And what about the French. Well there lazy aren't they even though their productivity is higher than America's. But their economy is tanking, employment is rising and hard times are approaching for them.

    We've become accustomed to hearing how the population of each individual country is somewhat delinquent. Individually each argument bears some truth but is often framed in an odious fashion full of stereotypes.

    However start to look at the collective picture.

    Greece 11 million, Portugal 10, Ireland 6 million, Spain 47 million, Italy 61 million, France 65 million, Cyprus 1 million.

    The populations of the individually delinquent European nations total 201 million. The European Union has 503 million. 40% (approx.) of the EU are persons individually and solely responsible for the respective mess in their own countries. And you know what they certainly did contribute but with 40% of the union now living in countries either collapsed, collapsing, or simply depressed you have to wonder at what point people begin to collectively wonder about the contribution of the European Union or more accurately the economic model of the European union.

    40% of Europe in deep trouble yet somehow its all down to individuals.

    That's some myth they have going there isn't it.

  2. #2
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,614
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by duthealla View Post
    Hasn't the Cyprus debacle been informative. Everyone finger pointing trying to implicate each other. Nobody wanting to say they tried bullyin Cyprus instead it was an experiment on whether contagion spreads when the country is differentiated enough and sure aren't they Russian mobsters anyhow.

    Its typical of what we've heard for years now. You the individual are entirely responsible.

    We know the Spanish are responsible because they are feckless and corrupt spendthrifts who wasted good money on a huge housing boom and spent recklessly even if they generally didn't run deficits and had low debt to GDB. They and they alone are responsible. 5 million unemployed - sure that's their own making

    We know our fine leader Enda Kenny feels that the Irish and the Irish alone are responsible for the crisis. He even went to Davos and told the World economic forum that "What happened in our country was that people simply went mad borrowing." Old Paddy lost the run of himself as Enda might say. Over 14% unemployment with no chance of it going down. That's you call Padraig you made that bed.

    Those feckless Greeks well sure they lied about their banks, nobody pays taxes and its all a mess. 26% unemployment. Serves your right Stavros you should have been like our German friends

    The Portuguese never adapted to living in a democracy, have no idea about running an effective economy and seem reluctant to really implement austerity and win over confidence.

    The Cypriots are Russian mafia pawns - nobody to blame but themselves. You can break the law with people who know no rule of law.

    The Italians are on the list as well - political comedians. They and they alone are responsible for a situation where 1000 businesses a day are failing, where liquidity has vanished, and job prospects or support for young families is nearly non-existent.

    And what about the French. Well there lazy aren't they even though their productivity is higher than America's. But their economy is tanking, employment is rising and hard times are approaching for them.

    We've become accustomed to hearing how the population of each individual country is somewhat delinquent. Individually each argument bears some truth but is often framed in an odious fashion full of stereotypes.

    However start to look at the collective picture.

    Greece 11 million, Portugal 10, Ireland 6 million, Spain 47 million, Italy 61 million, France 65 million, Cyprus 1 million.

    The populations of the individually delinquent European nations total 201 million. The European Union has 503 million. 40% (approx.) of the EU are persons individually and solely responsible for the respective mess in their own countries. And you know what they certainly did contribute but with 40% of the union now living in countries either collapsed, collapsing, or simply depressed you have to wonder at what point people begin to collectively wonder about the contribution of the European Union or more accurately the economic model of the European union.

    40% of Europe in deep trouble yet somehow its all down to individuals.

    That's some myth they have going there isn't it.


    Some f.ucking racket indeed.

  3. #3
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    16,278
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    The decisions which bankrupt this country were made by a small number of its most powerful citizens in charge of its most influential institutions.

    Ordinary people were given a spin-doctored, unjustifiedly optimistic view of the situation for years during the Celtic tiger period.

    Blaming ordinary people for what happened is, therefore, wrong.

  4. #4
    Politics.ie Member duthealla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,821
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shiel View Post
    The decisions which bankrupt this country were made by a small number of its most powerful citizens in charge of its most influential institutions.

    Ordinary people were given a spin-doctored, unjustifiedly optimistic view of the situation for years during the Celtic tiger period.

    Blaming ordinary people for what happened is, therefore, wrong.
    And yet in each country its the same story. The best country of those 200 million delinquents are France and they have hit a 10 year 13 year high in unemployment.

  5. #5
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Co.Cork
    Posts
    2,084
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    All currency unions fail in the end due to different economic cycles, different interest rate needs, different exchange rates needs, the Brits were on the money staying out
    Major economic commentators said the euro wouldn't survive it's first major test, well 5 years in with f.uck all sign of growth, rising deficits, rising unemployment across the ez, mass protests I think it has been an epic failure as an experiment, but I can't see the thing falling apart because of too much political will to save the dam thing, even at the cost of millions of Europeans livelihoods

  6. #6
    Politics.ie Member duthealla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,821
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by viper999 View Post
    All currency unions fail in the end due to different economic cycles, different interest rate needs, different exchange rates needs, the Brits were on the money staying out
    Major economic commentators said the euro wouldn't survive it's first major test, well 5 years in with f.uck all sign of growth, rising deficits, rising unemployment across the ez, mass protests I think it has been an epic failure as an experiment, but I can't see the thing falling apart because of too much political will to save the dam thing, even at the cost of millions of Europeans livelihoods
    The political will of person's entirely insulated from any economic side affects. Our President Barroso draws 25k a month salary which is entirely unaffected by the state of utter decay in 40% of the union.

    Manuel and Ollie will not shirk from continuing not because of political will but because they are insulated from any negative affects. No matter if Cyprus collapses or Italy goes the way of Greece Barroso will still be entitled to over 1k a month entertainment allowance. That's a fundamental disconnect from reality.

  7. #7
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    15,583
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shiel View Post
    The decisions which bankrupt this country were made by a small number of its most powerful citizens in charge of its most influential institutions.

    Ordinary people were given a spin-doctored, unjustifiedly optimistic view of the situation for years during the Celtic tiger period.

    Blaming ordinary people for what happened is, therefore, wrong.
    Ordinary people voted for economic policies that were batshít crazy.

    Using 30 day money to fund 30 year mortgages? Like hello?

    They could choose to believe the spin doctors selling them a line about the Money Fairy, or they could choose to believe the people calling for proper planning, sustainable economics, higher taxes, and reduced increases in PS pay, perks and pensions.

    They chose to believe the former, because they wanted something for nothing. Free money. Unearned prosperity. The Money Fairy; I'll have some of that please.

    25% of economic activity was coming from bank lending.

    Not bank lending for investing in the future, but bank lending for consumption and speculation.

    Even today we have a government that has spent 8 years tax revenues in 5 years because it is to cowardly to tell people the truth.

    Primarily because people don't want to hear the truth.

    If people were interested in the truth, and long term sustainable policies, then they hypocritical kleptocrats in Fianna Fail would not be rising in the polls.
    "Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain

    “When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte

  8. #8
    Politics.ie Member duthealla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,821
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SPN View Post
    Ordinary people voted for economic policies that were batshít crazy.

    Using 30 day money to fund 30 year mortgages? Like hello?

    They could choose to believe the spin doctors selling them a line about the Money Fairy, or they could choose to believe the people calling for proper planning, sustainable economics, higher taxes, and reduced increases in PS pay, perks and pensions.

    They chose to believe the former, because they wanted something for nothing. Free money. Unearned prosperity. The Money Fairy; I'll have some of that please.

    25% of economic activity was coming from bank lending.

    Not bank lending for investing in the future, but bank lending for consumption and speculation.

    Even today we have a government that has spent 8 years tax revenues in 5 years because it is to cowardly to tell people the truth.

    Primarily because people don't want to hear the truth.

    If people were interested in the truth, and long term sustainable policies, then they hypocritical kleptocrats in Fianna Fail would not be rising in the polls.
    Look everyone knows ordinary people across Europe should have been more discriminating but look nobody picked a mortgage which wasn't sanctioned by the existing system. People were foolish but foolish more so because they thought the financial and political structures were to be trusted and that trusted beyond the glorified county council that's out freestate here. People here and across Europe believed the EU offered the good governance that was often lacking in their states.

    Yet 40% of the EU now in the sh*t isn't it time to start sharing the blame to include all those responsible rather than the cop out of the people alone

  9. #9
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    4,237
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by duthealla View Post
    And yet in each country its the same story. The best country of those 200 million delinquents are France and they have hit a 10 year 13 year high in unemployment.
    France has also decided to clean up it's act on transparency and corruption. Sarkosy has been investigated as has/is Lagarde. The strange thing is that during the course of a tax avoidance investigation the government Minister in charge has had to resign. He was found to have a tax avoidance account in a Swiss bank, UBS.
    French Minister leading tax evasion crackdown resigns after formal investigation launched | euronews, world news

  10. #10
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    450
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Great opening post, the problem with the inception of the currency union are the consequences of a) sovereigns states surrendering control of monetary policy b) the inability to devalue ones currency and c) the ECB and the German election. There is no plan for growth, in fact, the entire global economy is doing quite well bar the industralized world, particularly Europe and the Western World. We need a plan for growth and a plan to restore competitiveness and to address the issue of both public and private debts.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •