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Thread: Bacik's Civil Registration (Marriage Equality) Bill

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    Politics.ie Member livingstone's Avatar
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    Default Bacik's Civil Registration (Marriage Equality) Bill

    Labour publishes draft law to allow same-sex civil marriage

    So we finally have proposed legislation on marriage equality, albeit proposed by a Senator rather than Government, and therefore unlikely to actually become law. Interesting to force the hands of Oireachtas members into a vote though.

    It also happens that today is the last day for submissions to the Constitutional Convention on marriage equality, which they will discuss next month. I expect the formal position of many people in response to Bacik's Bill will be to kick the can and say that it's a matter for the Constitutional Convention. But of course that only works if you agree that there's a constitutional prohibition on marriage equality in the first place, which many do not.

    Also interesting in the context of the US, where the SC could decide in June that prohibitions on marriage equality breach the US Constitution. If they do, it's difficult to see how long Ireland, or indeed most western countries, would hold out denying marriage equality.

    (NB - I know some posters will be delighted with the opportunity for some Bacik bashing, but perhaps we can stick to the actual issue)

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    Politics.ie Member borntorum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livingstone View Post
    Labour publishes draft law to allow same-sex civil marriage

    So we finally have proposed legislation on marriage equality, albeit proposed by a Senator rather than Government, and therefore unlikely to actually become law. Interesting to force the hands of Oireachtas members into a vote though.

    It also happens that today is the last day for submissions to the Constitutional Convention on marriage equality, which they will discuss next month. I expect the formal position of many people in response to Bacik's Bill will be to kick the can and say that it's a matter for the Constitutional Convention. But of course that only works if you agree that there's a constitutional prohibition on marriage equality in the first place, which many do not.

    Also interesting in the context of the US, where the SC could decide in June that prohibitions on marriage equality breach the US Constitution. If they do, it's difficult to see how long Ireland, or indeed most western countries, would hold out denying marriage equality.

    (NB - I know some posters will be delighted with the opportunity for some Bacik bashing, but perhaps we can stick to the actual issue)
    What issue? There are numerous gay marriage threads already. Surely the differentiating factor here (if there is one) is that a Labour Senator has published the Bill rather than a Minister. If so, then the politics and personality of that Senator is at least somewhat relevant, no?

  3. #3

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    I can't see any way to regard this except as a stunt. I don't appreciate issues which affect my dignity and my civil rights being used in this sort of way.
    Repeal the 27th.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by borntorum View Post
    What issue? There are numerous gay marriage threads already. Surely the differentiating factor here (if there is one) is that a Labour Senator has published the Bill rather than a Minister. If so, then the politics and personality of that Senator is at least somewhat relevant, no?
    The personality of the politician who publishes a bill is hardly relevant to its contents. There are plenty of gay marriage threads and plenty of Bacik-bashing threads already.
    Repeal the 27th.

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    Politics.ie Member corelli's Avatar
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    Several issues.

    1. All the Irish Case Law would indicate the Bill is unconstitutional as it stands.

    2. The Government have no intention of accepting it and will kick the can to the Constitutional Convention, as is proper.

    3. It's a stunt and was launched in the Meath constituency, funnily enough.

    Can we all go back to sleep now?
    "......... we must sometimes listen to those who, consumed with zeal, have scant judgment or balance. To such ones the modern world is nothing but betrayal and ruin.........We feel bound to disagree with these prophets of doom who are forever forecasting calamity -- as though the world's end were imminent."

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    Politics.ie Member borntorum's Avatar
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    So what's the point of this one then?

    (And of course personality is relevant to the politics of the issue, as opposed to the contents of the bill itself)

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by corelli View Post
    Several issues.

    1. All the Irish Case Law would indicate the Bill is unconstitutional as it stands.

    2. The Government have no intention of accepting it and will kick the can to the Constitutional Convention, as is proper.

    3. It's a stunt and was launched in the Meath constituency, funnily enough.

    Can we all go back to sleep now?
    No - Bacik deserves criticism over this. The issue is too important to be used as a political stunt.
    Repeal the 27th.

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    Politics.ie Member SilverSpurs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livingstone View Post
    Labour publishes draft law to allow same-sex civil marriage

    So we finally have proposed legislation on marriage equality, albeit proposed by a Senator rather than Government, and therefore unlikely to actually become law. Interesting to force the hands of Oireachtas members into a vote though.

    It also happens that today is the last day for submissions to the Constitutional Convention on marriage equality, which they will discuss next month. I expect the formal position of many people in response to Bacik's Bill will be to kick the can and say that it's a matter for the Constitutional Convention. But of course that only works if you agree that there's a constitutional prohibition on marriage equality in the first place, which many do not.

    Also interesting in the context of the US, where the SC could decide in June that prohibitions on marriage equality breach the US Constitution. If they do, it's difficult to see how long Ireland, or indeed most western countries, would hold out denying marriage equality.

    (NB - I know some posters will be delighted with the opportunity for some Bacik bashing, but perhaps we can stick to the actual issue)
    Repeat after me:
    Social Democrat parties exist to distract the poor with fringe causes to prevent them focussing on the major issues of inequality in education, shambolic public services, long term unemployment etc.
    While also acknowledging the terrible treatment of homosexuals for the sole 'crime' of their gender preference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    I can't see any way to regard this except as a stunt. I don't appreciate issues which affect my dignity and my civil rights being used in this sort of way.
    Actually its far more important than that. There is a body of opinion that says referendum rather than legislation is necessary.It would be far better if legislation was attempted first and referred to the Supreme Court under Art. 26 with the benefit of the presumption of constitutionality. And only if the Supreme Court says no then go to the majority if they will grant equality.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Con Gallagher View Post
    Actually its far more important than that. There is a body of opinion that says referendum rather than legislation is necessary.It would be far better if legislation was attempted first and referred to the Supreme Court under Art. 26 with the benefit of the presumption of constitutionality. And only if the Supreme Court says no then go to the majority if they will grant equality.
    That is the view I hold, but there is nothing in this announcement which says anything one way or the other about the constitutionality of the proposed bill. The status quo among Labour politicians has been to say that a referendum is necessary. If Bacik was serious about this, she would have challenged that opinion.
    Repeal the 27th.

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