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Thread: Head of Department of Finance: We have an "unnaturally low level of repossessions", things will change soon.

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    Politics.ie Member Sync's Avatar
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    Default Head of Department of Finance: We have an "unnaturally low level of repossessions", things will change soon.

    Eye opening stuff from John Moran yesterday, none of the couching that politicians engage, just hard reality.

    1. Legislation is going to be passed to get around the Dunne judgement. Banks are going to be able to repossess houses as a last resort where there is no realistic possibility of repayment of the principle.

    2. Large subsidising of mortgages seems to be ruled out: "It is not necessarily appropriate that banks should be using taxpayers' money to subsidise people living in accommodation, even if it is a family home, that is beyond their means."

    3. On repossession rates in other countries: "Maybe we will move to those levels. We have had as serious a crisis as everybody else."

    Now, The UK had 159000 borrowers in arrears in 2012, and in Q3 repossessed 8200. And that was their lowest quarter in 5 years.

    We have 51353 residential mortgages in over 360 days arrears. If we were to head towards UK stats then, that's about 2500 homes being repossessed a quarter for us.

    BBC News - Home repossessions drop to five-year low, lenders say



    This is it guys. This is your warning. It's as clear as it possibly can be. If you look at your finances, look at your projected income of the next 10 years and look at your mortgage and can't see a way that you're going to be able to repay it, this is your warning that you need to start preparing to exit the contract.

    Fianna Fáil’s Michael McGrath said while measures such as interest-only payments and lengthening mortgage terms would help some homeowners, others would need a complete mortgage restructuring.

    Dead right. Every effort should be made by the bank to move to Interest only for a period of time (with no monetary gain for hte bank), lengthening terms should be offered. But there's a cut off point, and if you haven't been able to pay anything in over a year, your number's up.

    The govt are being up front and honest with you. They are passing legislation to make easier to repossess your home. Hopefully your bank has been as well. Get to a solicitor, get to a financial advisor, see what can be rejigged, see where you stand. But the days of relying on a legal stalemate/reluctance of banks to action appear to be over.
    I'm living in America, and in America, you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business. Now f***ing pay me.

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    Politics.ie Member greengoose2's Avatar
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    There's only one question I would pose! Where will the evicted people go? That's a huge one.

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    longshortgrass
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    Here's how they do it in the good old USA, no messing about.

    Year Foreclosures Foreclosure Filings Home Repossessions
    2012 Year Projection 2,300,000 2,100,000 700,000
    2012 (Jan-Sept) 1,616,427 1,382,000 572,844
    2011 3,920,418 3,580,000 1,147,000
    2010 3,843,548 3,500,000 1,125,000
    2009 3,457,643 2,920,000 945,000
    2008 3,019,482 2,350,000 679,000
    2007 2,203,295 1,260,000 489,000
    2006 1,215,304 545,000 268,532

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    Politics.ie Member Sync's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greengoose2 View Post
    There's only one question I would pose! Where will the evicted people go? That's a huge one.
    Rents have been pretty much flat on houses since 2010. If you've bought in 2006-2008 at the peak of the bubble and are lumbered paying €2500 a month mortgage, then dropping to €900 a month rental is your option. I do agree the govt need to increase the amount of council housing as well if they go down the road of legislating for eviction.

    In fact if I were SF/FF I would be pushing very hard in public that if the govt want to go down this evil, hardhearted route that they include in the same legislation a method to assist people in transition.
    I'm living in America, and in America, you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business. Now f***ing pay me.

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    Politics.ie Member greengoose2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sync View Post
    Rents have been pretty much flat on houses since 2010. If you've bought in 2006-2008 at the peak of the bubble and are lumbered paying €2500 a month mortgage, then dropping to €900 a month rental is your option. I do agree the govt need to increase the amount of council housing as well if they go down the road of legislating for eviction.

    In fact if I were SF/FF I would be pushing very hard in public that if the govt want to go down this evil, hardhearted route that they include in the same legislation a method to assist people in transition.
    The trouble is that the evicted would be in negative equity and therefore still owe the banks. Many will be unemployed so there's little chance that they would not be a drain on society. They can't simply be thrown out on the street.

    Will we see legislation for the transition? That would be the sensible route to take but I'm sure the incompetents will screw this thing up anyway!

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    Politics.ie Member Sync's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greengoose2 View Post
    The trouble is that the evicted would be in negative equity and therefore still owe the banks. Many will be unemployed so there's little chance that they would not be a drain on society. They can't simply be thrown out on the street.
    If you're going to do this you need to:
    A: Make it easier for banks to repossess as a last resort where there's no chance of repayment
    B: Make bankruptcy an easier process to get in and out of
    C: Accept there will be people who can't pay back much of the negative equity and that you're going to take a hit. Get your estimates together and as firm figures as possible.
    D: Legislate for the transition for those evicted.

    Will we see legislation for the transition? That would be the sensible route to take but I'm sure the incompetents will screw this thing up anyway!
    No, we'll see the first bit and then promises of the other stuff.
    I'm living in America, and in America, you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business. Now f***ing pay me.

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    Politics.ie Member greengoose2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sync View Post
    If you're going to do this you need to:
    A: Make it easier for banks to repossess as a last resort where there's no chance of repayment
    B: Make bankruptcy an easier process to get in and out of
    C: Accept there will be people who can't pay back much of the negative equity and that you're going to take a hit. Get your estimates together and as firm figures as possible.
    D: Legislate for the transition for those evicted.



    No, we'll see the first bit and then promises of the other stuff.
    It would appear that the banks are running the country and that Dáil Éireann is merely the front office. There are potentially, thousands of evictions for people who were sucked into the Celtic Tiger's arse. These are the ones taking the hit while the banks are not. Is this really fair. If the bookie loses a fortune on some nag he pays out. It's not a one way traffic, no more that the boom was.

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    Politics.ie Member Crazy horse 6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greengoose2 View Post
    It would appear that the banks are running the country and that Dáil Éireann is merely the front office. There are potentially, thousands of evictions for people who were sucked into the Celtic Tiger's arse. These are the ones taking the hit while the banks are not. Is this really fair. If the bookie loses a fortune on some nag he pays out. It's not a one way traffic, no more that the boom was.
    The fact that most of the bankers and the higher paid civil servents who caused this worsening economic disaster are still in the positions they where during the "boom" tells us all we need to know about this corrupt little nation of ours. And now those same people would have families out on the street homeless. B a s t a r d s is all they are hope they die screaming in pain the lot of them.

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    Politics.ie Member dizillusioned's Avatar
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    Sync and Greengoose well done on this thread so far.

    The deafening silence from the banks indicates to me that they are happy with the personal insolvency bill.

    Having seen Noonan last night being "interviewed" much of what he said in relation to property increases (not that I believe him) will be wiped out with repossessions coming on the market.

    Be that as it may, there is going to be a massive increase in costs to the state if repossessions are to be increased. I understand that the current position cannot be continued. However, legislation pushed through to bring tens of thousands of householders into homelessness will have a massive impact on social services.

    While we can say what SHOULD be done in legislation to help people in transition, experience tells us that those who legislate in this country, rarely if ever get it right.

    I am extremely annoyed that a senior civil servant should be bringing this information to the fore, surely with something of this importance to so many, it should be a minister. After all, no one in the Dept. of Finance had any act or part in the policies that lead to this situation arrising.

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    Politics.ie Member Burnout's Avatar
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    Old Ireland really is dead and gone, the amount of changes which have come about in the last few years since the CelticTiger Bertie Bonzanza and the takeover of Ireland by Europe has been slowly but surely dragging us into the 20th century.

    All we need now is get rid of a few political parties and just have a front line group actually looking after the citizens of Ireland and working to have the best done with what we have in the coffers. No need for political civil war politics anymore, let us embrace reality.

    Now is the time for the gombeen party members to leave with some dignity before been thrown out of their expensive offices and sent out into the real world.

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