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Thread: Guardian/BBC investigation links Rumsfeld and Petraeus to Iraqi death squads and torture centres

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    Politics.ie Member darkknight's Avatar
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    Default Guardian/BBC investigation links Rumsfeld and Petraeus to Iraqi death squads and torture centres

    Revealed: Pentagon's link to Iraqi torture centres | World news | The Guardian

    The Pentagon sent a US veteran of the "dirty wars" in Central America to oversee sectarian police commando units in Iraq that set up secret detention and torture centres to get information from insurgents. These units conducted some of the worst acts of torture during the US occupation and accelerated the country's descent into full-scale civil war.
    ...

    The allegations, made by US and Iraqi witnesses in the Guardian/BBC documentary, implicate US advisers for the first time in the human rights abuses committed by the commandos. It is also the first time that Petraeus – who last November was forced to resign as director of the CIA after a sex scandal – has been linked through an adviser to this abuse.
    ...

    The Guardian/BBC Arabic investigation was sparked by the release of classified US military logs on WikiLeaks that detailed hundreds of incidents where US soldiers came across tortured detainees in a network of detention centres run by the police commandos across Iraq. Private Bradley Manning, 25, is facing a prison sentence of up to 20 years after he pleaded guilty to leaking the documents.
    evidence outlined in 50 minute video:



    From El Salvador to Iraq: Washington's man behind brutal police squads

    follow-up article today: Donald Rumsfeld must be indicted over Iraq militias

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    Politics.ie Member Sync's Avatar
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    Let's stipulate for now that torture occurred (I don't really think it's worth splitting hairs over whether waterboarding counts as torture in this instance), and that memebers of the White House/army were aware of it. Is there an interest in the US to prosecute former generals/Presedential aides?

    Obama doesn't care. He's spoken about looking forward not backward. I've seen no evidence that this is a live issue with the voters. I just don't get where people think followup will occur from.
    I'm living in America, and in America, you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business. Now f***ing pay me.

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    I don't think there ever was much doubt but that Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld were up to their necks in this.
    On a broader note, what I find most disturbing is the extent to which otherwise ordinary decent people are coming to justify and accept torture as a necessary weapon in the war on terror. Prior to 9/11, most such people would either have assumed, or at least pretended, that western security forces did not routinely engage in torture and that it could be consigned to history and to the repressive regimes in other parts of the planet. Now, sadly, it is gaining increased support and this will be used to a horrific extent by the likes of Rumfeld & Co. One can only hope that some new enlightenment will prevent this from happening.

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    Politics.ie Member wombat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor View Post
    Now, sadly, it is gaining increased support and this will be used to a horrific extent by the likes of Rumfeld & Co. One can only hope that some new enlightenment will prevent this from happening.
    The best argument against torture came from an expert on the subject, John McCain, who said it didn't work. I'm only sorry he never challenged those in favour to raise their arms above their shoulders.

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    Politics.ie Member darkknight's Avatar
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    UPI: Report ties Pentagon to torture centers


    Huffington Post: Petraeus' Torture Teams

    One of Britain's leading newspapers, the Guardian, has just published an exposé of interrogation teams run by two U.S. operatives acting under the authority of General David Petraeus in Iraq in 2003-05. While no smoking gun -- or blood-stained billy club -- has Petraeus' fingerprints, it's clear from this extensive reporting that Petraeus not only knew of the "enhanced interrogation" of suspected insurgents, but likely hired the two thugs who were involved in it for two years.

    The Guardian article and video, and earlier reporting by Gareth Porter, reveal that two Americans, James Steele and Colonel James Coffman, created commando units and manned them with Shia militia members from the Badr Brigade. ...

    Steele earned his stripes in Ronald Reagan's jihad in Central America in the 1980s, creating exactly the same kind of torture and death squads in El Salvador. The Guardian says that defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld sent Steele to Iraq to create the commando squads. ...

    Last edited by darkknight; 7th March 2013 at 04:07 PM.

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    Politics.ie Member sgtharper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    The best argument against torture came from an expert on the subject, John McCain, who said it didn't work. I'm only sorry he never challenged those in favour to raise their arms above their shoulders.
    Well it didn't work on him and in his particular circumstances apparently, but that doesn't mean it has never worked in any situation? For example there have been examples of PW's being "turned" by their captors after prolonged torture, 34% of US PW's in the Korean War collaborated with their captors for example, and some made propaganda broadcasts against the US. The same happened in the Vietnam War I believe. In these cases it's clear that "Torture", or prolonged ill-treatment with a definite end in mind, did work.
    I'm not saying I'm in favour of torture you understand, just doubting if it's really accurate to say "it doesn't work", clearly it has and it does.
    “There are probably more annoying things than being hectored about African development by a wealthy Irish rock star in a cowboy hat, but I can’t think of one at the moment.”

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    Politics.ie Member Dame_Enda's Avatar
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    American's are right when they say they are an "exceptional nation". Their hypocrisy is exceptional. They lecture the rest of us (except Israel of course) on human rights while doing the exact same.
    Save the 27th

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    Politics.ie Member stopdoingstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sync View Post
    Let's stipulate for now that torture occurred (I don't really think it's worth splitting hairs over whether waterboarding counts as torture in this instance), and that memebers of the White House/army were aware of it. Is there an interest in the US to prosecute former generals/Presedential aides?

    Obama doesn't care. He's spoken about looking forward not backward. I've seen no evidence that this is a live issue with the voters. I just don't get where people think followup will occur from.
    Correct as usual. It also explains why the USA refuses to allow the ICC jurisdiction over its actions.
    Faoi mhóid bheith saor

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    Politics.ie Member wombat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgtharper View Post
    I'm not saying I'm in favour of torture you understand, just doubting if it's really accurate to say "it doesn't work", clearly it has and it does.
    It doesn't work because the information is not reliable, you don't know if you're being told the truth or what you want to hear. Brainwashing is a different exercise, they have time to wait.

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    Politics.ie Member Aristodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    The best argument against torture came from an expert on the subject, John McCain, who said it didn't work. I'm only sorry he never challenged those in favour to raise their arms above their shoulders.
    Well, the cheerleaders on this site all wanted Obama as President. Maybe something would have been done about it if people had voted for McCain.

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