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Thread: How important was Monti's defeat in causing apparent Troika U-turn?

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    Default How important was Monti's defeat in causing apparent Troika U-turn?

    If I were an Italian, I'd regard Mario Monti as something of a traitor, with his championing of German austerian claptrap and the slight matter of an unelected man usurping Italy's democracy for the first time since Mussolini.

    The fact is, Europe is in the grip of a mad delusion: the fantasy that a headlong rush to austerity in the middle of the greatest depression since the dawn of capitalism is a sane course of action. That's not an exaggeration either. By this point in the depression of the 1930s, the recovery was well underway in most capitalist nations, (because governments back then did the precise opposite of austerity). It's never been this bad for this long.

    So now there is an apparent reversal in an important plank of the austerian attack on the populations of Portugal and Ireland. A massive postponement to a completely unreasonable repayment schedule has been floated today, and hasn't been shot down.

    Now, the original repayment schedule is no more reasonable today than it was two years ago, or last week. If austerity was a good policy two years ago, why isn't it good policy today? The crushing defeat of austerian politics in Italy is the only plausible explanation I can think of for the timing of this apparent move.

    I suggest this thread shouldn't deal with Ireland in isolation, but rather work from a European perspective, given that this is, after all, the political entity in which we exist.

    So, if you think that Monti's defeat and the victory of anti-austerian politics in Italy hasn't got anything to do with this development, what's your explanation for the timing?
    When you see the words "Mises" or "Hayek" in someone's post, just ask yourself: do I really want to ban paper money and go back to gold?

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    It isn't a Troika u turn, and it has been on the cards well before the Italian elections.

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    Politics.ie Member Grumpy Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feargach View Post
    If I were an Italian, I'd regard Mario Monti as something of a traitor, with his championing of German austerian claptrap and the slight matter of an unelected man usurping Italy's democracy for the first time since Mussolini.

    The fact is, Europe is in the grip of a mad delusion: the fantasy that a headlong rush to austerity in the middle of the greatest depression since the dawn of capitalism is a sane course of action. That's not an exaggeration either. By this point in the depression of the 1930s, the recovery was well underway in most capitalist nations, (because governments back then did the precise opposite of austerity). It's never been this bad for this long.

    So now there is an apparent reversal in an important plank of the austerian attack on the populations of Portugal and Ireland. A massive postponement to a completely unreasonable repayment schedule has been floated today, and hasn't been shot down.

    Now, the original repayment schedule is no more reasonable today than it was two years ago, or last week. If austerity was a good policy two years ago, why isn't it good policy today? The crushing defeat of austerian politics in Italy is the only plausible explanation I can think of for the timing of this apparent move.

    I suggest this thread shouldn't deal with Ireland in isolation, but rather work from a European perspective, given that this is, after all, the political entity in which we exist.

    So, if you think that Monti's defeat and the victory of anti-austerian politics in Italy hasn't got anything to do with this development, what's your explanation for the timing?
    It's nothing to do with Monti's defeat in Italy - the extension of EU debt maturities was flagged weeks ago, before the Italian elections.

    It's also not the Troika but the EU element of it.

    Portugal and Ireland had been working behind the scenes on securing this concession for months once it was granted to Greece.

    When it was clear there was sufficient support and consensus for such a move, it was formally tabled by Portugal at an Ecofin meeting in January chaired by Michael Noonan as part of the Irish presidency and supported by Ireland.

    Absolutely fvck all to do with Italy but sure why would such facts matter on P.ie?

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    Politics.ie Member Sync's Avatar
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    ..............I love how you've offered no evidence of a decision against the postponement. There's no U turn.
    I'm living in America, and in America, you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business. Now f***ing pay me.

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    Politics.ie Member daveL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feargach View Post
    If I were an Italian, I'd regard Mario Monti as something of a traitor, with his championing of German austerian claptrap and the slight matter of an unelected man usurping Italy's democracy for the first time since Mussolini.

    The fact is, Europe is in the grip of a mad delusion: the fantasy that a headlong rush to austerity in the middle of the greatest depression since the dawn of capitalism is a sane course of action. That's not an exaggeration either. By this point in the depression of the 1930s, the recovery was well underway in most capitalist nations, (because governments back then did the precise opposite of austerity). It's never been this bad for this long.

    So now there is an apparent reversal in an important plank of the austerian attack on the populations of Portugal and Ireland. A massive postponement to a completely unreasonable repayment schedule has been floated today, and hasn't been shot down.

    Now, the original repayment schedule is no more reasonable today than it was two years ago, or last week. If austerity was a good policy two years ago, why isn't it good policy today? The crushing defeat of austerian politics in Italy is the only plausible explanation I can think of for the timing of this apparent move.

    I suggest this thread shouldn't deal with Ireland in isolation, but rather work from a European perspective, given that this is, after all, the political entity in which we exist.

    So, if you think that Monti's defeat and the victory of anti-austerian politics in Italy hasn't got anything to do with this development, what's your explanation for the timing?
    That was a waste of typing. Nothing at all to do with Italy.

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    All going to plan, it's about flooding countries and citizens with useless debt so banks and hedgefunds can speculate and keep profits whilst getting you to pick up the tab when toxic derivatives worth trillions dont work out as planned.
    'Hey If you cant pay this debt you never really owed, or if you want a little bit more money then dont worry - we'll have your forests, energy production ie assets instead', lowering your future ability to be self sufficient.

    'democracy lol..how quaint? oh yeah we pick the leader of the country in future...here's an ex banker to oversee matters'

    If someone said financial enslavement and asset stripping of sovereigns they would call you a nutjob. The reality that personal debt is at an all time high and we are busy handing over our assets is not the same thing apparently!

    its useless debt and not even real money. unbacked paper.

    even at a real basic level ie the small change;
    Your Euro is 1c,2c,5c coins are steel!
    Your 20c,50c are 'Nordic gold' ie mostly copper.
    the rest are bits of paper. Paper!

    If we linked income to currency supply I would not have a problem with it but we dont so any extra currency created by Quantitative easing or 'Bailouts' never goes into the real economy.

    It goes to those involved in creating the mess and that is not the way we should allow ourselves to be used.

    each of these austerity banking muppets should be kicked into touch.

    Are we citizens first or are we bank customers first...I'm starting to find it a little hard to tell??
    Fianna Fail - The Anti Democratic Party & The Anti Constitutional Party. Traitors of Irishmen and Irishwomen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EUrJokingMeRight View Post
    All going to plan, it's about flooding countries and citizens with useless debt so banks and hedgefunds can speculate and keep profits whilst getting you to pick up the tab when toxic derivatives worth trillions dont work out as planned.
    'Hey If you cant pay this debt you never really owed, or if you want a little bit more money then dont worry - we'll have your forests, energy production ie assets instead', lowering your future ability to be self sufficient.

    'democracy lol..how quaint? oh yeah we pick the leader of the country in future...here's an ex banker to oversee matters'

    If someone said financial enslavement and asset stripping of sovereigns they would call you a nutjob. The reality that personal debt is at an all time high and we are busy handing over our assets is not the same thing apparently!

    its useless debt and not even real money. unbacked paper.

    even at a real basic level ie the small change;
    Your Euro is 1c,2c,5c coins are steel!
    Your 20c,50c are 'Nordic gold' ie mostly copper.
    the rest are bits of paper. Paper!

    If we linked income to currency supply I would not have a problem with it but we dont so any extra currency created by Quantitative easing or 'Bailouts' never goes into the real economy.

    It goes to those involved in creating the mess and that is not the way we should allow ourselves to be used.
    I don't understand the illuminati type theories like this. If the idea is to enslave and impoverish us all, then who will buy their trinkets?

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    Politics.ie Member commonman's Avatar
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    As a lay man i know feck all about banks and markets but was watching the film, Margin Call, and if that the way banks are ran i give up.

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    Politics.ie Member Sync's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUrJokingMeRight View Post
    Snipped ad hominem ranting
    What do you think that has to do with the OP?
    I'm living in America, and in America, you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business. Now f***ing pay me.

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    Politics.ie Member Hewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feargach View Post
    If I were an Italian, I'd regard Mario Monti as something of a traitor, with his championing of German austerian claptrap and the slight matter of an unelected man usurping Italy's democracy for the first time since Mussolini.

    The fact is, Europe is in the grip of a mad delusion: the fantasy that a headlong rush to austerity in the middle of the greatest depression since the dawn of capitalism is a sane course of action. That's not an exaggeration either. By this point in the depression of the 1930s, the recovery was well underway in most capitalist nations, (because governments back then did the precise opposite of austerity). It's never been this bad for this long.

    So now there is an apparent reversal in an important plank of the austerian attack on the populations of Portugal and Ireland. A massive postponement to a completely unreasonable repayment schedule has been floated today, and hasn't been shot down.

    Now, the original repayment schedule is no more reasonable today than it was two years ago, or last week. If austerity was a good policy two years ago, why isn't it good policy today? The crushing defeat of austerian politics in Italy is the only plausible explanation I can think of for the timing of this apparent move.

    I suggest this thread shouldn't deal with Ireland in isolation, but rather work from a European perspective, given that this is, after all, the political entity in which we exist.

    So, if you think that Monti's defeat and the victory of anti-austerian politics in Italy hasn't got anything to do with this development, what's your explanation for the timing?
    Today's announcement on debt restructuring may not be related to the result of the Italian election, but the result almost certainly helped to focus minds, particularly in Berlin, that the time for telling the plebs on the periphery that life begins and ends with account balancing has come to an end.

    Any election result that causes headaches for the Eurocrats is to be warmly welcomed.
    Abortion is an act of violence. Violence demeans humanity, particularly violence against women and children.

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