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Thread: What would successful austerity in the Eurozone look like? How long before we can declare it a definitive failure?

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    Default What would successful austerity in the Eurozone look like? How long before we can declare it a definitive failure?

    Just out of curiosity, what exactly do the austerian fanboiz here have in mind as a successful, positive outcome of austerity for the nations in the current Eurozone?

    This is addressed to the pro-austerity mob on here who usually avoid direct difficult questions like vampires avoid sunbathing.

    We all know that some time between now and the year 2299 there will be another economic recovery in the zone, with low inflation and full employment.

    The question is: how long will we have to wait before inflation, employment and deficits are at acceptable levels, under a continued austerity regime?

    If austerity goes on for fifty years without bringing in full employment and low inflation, then we can all agree that in that scenario, austerity is a dismal failure. Are we agreed on that much? If you can't commit to that, you really aren't being honest, are you?

    How about five years? Will you accept that after five years of mass joblessness and periods of recession outlasting periods of weak growth, austerity can be definitively, unambiguously declared a failure?

    Or it the perfection and holiness of austerity so untouchable that no mountain of economic data can ever bring its rightness into question?

    If we get even five of the hundreds of p.ie austerians answering in a straight, non-evasive manner, I will be stunned.
    When you see the words "Mises" or "Hayek" in someone's post, just ask yourself: do I really want to ban paper money and go back to gold?

    You have to pity the kind of people who buy into conspiracy theories. I find the following to be the saddest words on the internet: "Re: connection between Bilderberg puppet lady gaga and viral outbreak in ukraine "

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    Quote Originally Posted by feargach View Post
    Just out of curiosity, what exactly do the austerian fanboiz here have in mind as a successful, positive outcome of austerity for the nations in the current Eurozone?

    This is addressed to the pro-austerity mob on here who usually avoid direct difficult questions like vampires avoid sunbathing.

    We all know that some time between now and the year 2299 there will be another economic recovery in the zone, with low inflation and full employment.

    The question is: how long will we have to wait before inflation, employment and deficits are at acceptable levels, under a continued austerity regime?

    If austerity goes on for fifty years without bringing in full employment and low inflation, then we can all agree that in that scenario, austerity is a dismal failure. Are we agreed on that much? If you can't commit to that, you really aren't being honest, are you?

    How about five years? Will you accept that after five years of mass joblessness and periods of recession outlasting periods of weak growth, austerity can be definitively, unambiguously declared a failure?

    Or it the perfection and holiness of austerity so untouchable that no mountain of economic data can ever bring its rightness into question?

    If we get even five of the hundreds of p.ie austerians answering in a straight, non-evasive manner, I will be stunned.
    a successful outcome would leave us

    1. living within our means by running a deficit of less than 3%
    2. with a cost base in both the public and the private sectors which we can afford, we pay too much for both public and private sector services
    3. reform of our political system-say half the number of politicans and leave them on a decent wage-cut out the myriad of allowances
    4. reform of our welfare system so that there is a genuine gap in income between those who work and those who don't

    we should have a genuine debate as to what type of society we want is it a high tax or a low tax one? as opposed to the usual dismal type of debate our "leaders" dish up here

    we should also, in my view, take our medicine as to the cock up those in power made of things rather than kicking our debts down the road for future generations to pay

    finally what our masters call hard decisions is a joke-get on with it and put us out of our misery-it is going on now for too long because they do't have the guts to implement proper reform

    you mention 50 years, i doubt the public will take even 5 more

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    "If we VOTE YES there will be no more austere budgets. Fact " Hammer, mayday 12'

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    Quote Originally Posted by TODevastated View Post
    a successful outcome would leave us

    1. living within our means by running a deficit of less than 3%
    2. with a cost base in both the public and the private sectors which we can afford, we pay too much for both public and private sector services
    3. reform of our political system-say half the number of politicans and leave them on a decent wage-cut out the myriad of allowances
    4. reform of our welfare system so that there is a genuine gap in income between those who work and those who don't

    we should have a genuine debate as to what type of society we want is it a high tax or a low tax one? as opposed to the usual dismal type of debate our "leaders" dish up here

    we should also, in my view, take our medicine as to the cock up those in power made of things rather than kicking our debts down the road for future generations to pay

    finally what our masters call hard decisions is a joke-get on with it and put us out of our misery-it is going on now for too long because they do't have the guts to implement proper reform

    you mention 50 years, i doubt the public will take even 5 more
    As predicted, you evaded the question completely.

    I repeat: what would unemployment rates be in your scenario?

    I repeat: what would inflation rates be in your scenario?

    And most importantly: how long would we have to endure the non-appearance of decent employment rates before we can finally definitively say "well, that was a failure"?

    Five years?

    Ten?

    A thousand?

    Can dismal failure continue forever without you admitting to it?
    When you see the words "Mises" or "Hayek" in someone's post, just ask yourself: do I really want to ban paper money and go back to gold?

    You have to pity the kind of people who buy into conspiracy theories. I find the following to be the saddest words on the internet: "Re: connection between Bilderberg puppet lady gaga and viral outbreak in ukraine "

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    Quote Originally Posted by feargach View Post
    If we get even five of the hundreds of p.ie austerians answering in a straight, non-evasive manner, I will be stunned.
    What are you talking about? It's like a child throwing a tantrum because mammy can't buy a shiny new bike.

    THIS COUNTRY IS BROKE. WE DON'T HAVE A POT TO PISS IN!

    And they haven't even started to cut yet! They're still refusing to face reality.

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    Well, we're at zero non-evasive answers so far. Let's see how this develops.
    When you see the words "Mises" or "Hayek" in someone's post, just ask yourself: do I really want to ban paper money and go back to gold?

    You have to pity the kind of people who buy into conspiracy theories. I find the following to be the saddest words on the internet: "Re: connection between Bilderberg puppet lady gaga and viral outbreak in ukraine "

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    Quote Originally Posted by R3volution_R3ady View Post
    What are you talking about? It's like a child throwing a tantrum because mammy can't buy a shiny new bike.

    THIS COUNTRY IS BROKE. WE DON'T HAVE A POT TO PISS IN!

    And they haven't even started to cut yet! They're still refusing to face reality.
    Your tacit admission that you know that there's no chance in hell of austerity ever being a success in the Eurozone is duly noted.
    When you see the words "Mises" or "Hayek" in someone's post, just ask yourself: do I really want to ban paper money and go back to gold?

    You have to pity the kind of people who buy into conspiracy theories. I find the following to be the saddest words on the internet: "Re: connection between Bilderberg puppet lady gaga and viral outbreak in ukraine "

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiphin View Post
    north korea style ?.

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    Quote Originally Posted by feargach View Post
    As predicted, you evaded the question completely.

    I repeat: what would unemployment rates be in your scenario?

    I repeat: what would inflation rates be in your scenario?

    And most importantly: how long would we have to endure the non-appearance of decent employment rates before we can finally definitively say "well, that was a failure"?

    Five years?

    Ten?

    A thousand?

    Can dismal failure continue forever without you admitting to it?
    unemployment rates-lower than they are now
    would inflation rates be in your scenario-possibly higher than now
    i answered the question by saying that it did not think we will put up with it for more than 5 years-economically that period may be longer but i do not agree i think we have had it dismal for long enough

    having said that what we have seen here is merely tinkering at the edges not real austerity

    i have no problem admitting to anything being a failure if it is done properly in the first instance

    there is no need for such a pious tone in your posts

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    Quote Originally Posted by feargach View Post
    I repeat: what would unemployment rates be in your scenario?
    "Austerity" is not related to the creation of jobs. That's an invention of the Left to try and discredit the adjustment we have to undertake.

    "Austerity" is about reducing the Budget deficit to a manageable level. That's all it is about. Our Budget deficit has been dramatically reduced in the last 3 years, so it is a verifiable fact that "Austerity" is working.

    Once that is done, then you can start thinking about creating jobs.

    The Left's take on this is that we should borrow money at 6% to create economic growth of 2%. Go figure.
    A demagogue is someone who will preach doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots.

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