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Thread: Boy (16) from Ireland dies fighting for Syrian rebels

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    Politics.ie Member stopdoingstuff's Avatar
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    Default Boy (16) from Ireland dies fighting for Syrian rebels

    Boy (16) from Ireland dies fighting for Syrian rebels - Independent.ie

    I want to preface this thread by saying that the family of this young man are still living and working in Ireland, and that I would hope that whatever way way this discussion goes it is conducted in a manner that is sensitive to the family's loss. For me this means focusing more on the generality of the issues raised and refraining from saying too much about the familiy directly. This could very well prove impossible, so I will understand if the moderators shut it down. I also apologize if I have more faith in the capacity of our posters for sensitivity and self-restraint than is justified.

    Basically, a 16 year old kid from Libya who spent 12 years living in Ireland has been killed when fighting against the Assad regime. A few months ago, the same thing happened to a 23 year old Egyptian who had also spent a long time here was killed in the same conflict under similar circumstances.

    On reading this, I was struck by the fact that a person who basically grew up and was educated here somehow became embroiled in a conflict in a far-off land, a conflict to which he perhaps felt some connection due to his identity as a Muslim.

    Is this something we should be worried about? Does it point to a failure to integrate? Does it mean that there is a radical element in our society or at least a certain constituency prone to foreign radicalization? Does it point to at least the possibility that somewhere down the line, maybe because of our involvement in the EU war in North Africa, we might experience some very unpleasant blowback? If these fears are justified or at least not entirely unreasonable, what is the correct political response? Is there a way of dealing with this without succumbing to irrational fears and unjustified stereotyping that might quite likely inflame matters? Does it show that we need to rethink our immigration policies, or maybe even go so far as having an immigration policy to begin with? If kids can end up in Syria, can't they also end up in the Islamic Maghreb or a madrassa in Afghanistan?

    Or is it just a case of either two easily led kids or perhaps two kids who had the courage to stand up to an undoubtedly tyrannical regime? After all, if Obama is actually arming the Syrian opposition, then why would we criticize two kids who were doing their bit? Could it be that I am actually a total racist whose only actual issue is that a Muslim picked up a gun without whitey telling him to?
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    Quote Originally Posted by stopdoingstuff View Post
    Boy (16) from Ireland dies fighting for Syrian rebels - Independent.ie

    I want to preface this thread by saying that the family of this young man are still living and working in Ireland, and that I would hope that whatever way way this discussion goes it is conducted in a manner that is sensitive to the family's loss. For me this means focusing more on the generality of the issues raised and refraining from saying too much about the familiy directly. This could very well prove impossible, so I will understand if the moderators shut it down. I also apologize if I have more faith in the capacity of our posters for sensitivity and self-restraint than is justified.

    Basically, a 16 year old kid from Libya who spent 12 years living in Ireland has been killed when fighting against the Assad regime. A few months ago, the same thing happened to a 23 year old Egyptian who had also spent a long time here was killed in the same conflict under similar circumstances.

    On reading this, I was struck by the fact that a person who basically grew up and was educated here somehow became embroiled in a conflict in a far-off land, a conflict to which he perhaps felt some connection due to his identity as a Muslim.

    Is this something we should be worried about? Does it point to a failure to integrate? Does it mean that there is a radical element in our society or at least a certain constituency prone to foreign radicalization? Does it point to at least the possibility that somewhere down the line, maybe because of our involvement in the EU war in North Africa, we might experience some very unpleasant blowback? If these fears are justified or at least not entirely unreasonable, what is the correct political response? Is there a way of dealing with this without succumbing to irrational fears and unjustified stereotyping that might quite likely inflame matters? Does it show that we need to rethink our immigration policies, or maybe even go so far as having an immigration policy to begin with? If kids can end up in Syria, can't they also end up in the Islamic Maghreb or a madrassa in Afghanistan?

    Or is it just a case of either two easily led kids or perhaps two kids who had the courage to stand up to an undoubtedly tyrannical regime? After all, if Obama is actually arming the Syrian opposition, then why would we criticize two kids who were doing their bit? Could it be that I am actually a total racist whose only actual issue is that a Muslim picked up a gun without whitey telling him to?
    Despite the newspaper headlines, this boy was not Irish, although for some reason living in Meath.

    Quote Originally Posted by stopdoingstuff View Post
    Is this something we should be worried about? Does it point to a failure to integrate?
    Yes and yes again.

    Quote Originally Posted by stopdoingstuff View Post
    After all, if Obama is actually arming the Syrian opposition, then why would we criticize two kids who were doing their bit?
    Just because Obama is doing it doesn't make it right.
    In fact, without the US and Israeli interference, most likely this conflict in Syria wouldn't be happening. It's just a proxy war against Iran with the Syrian people viewed as expendable.
    At some point the gloves must come off and we face our adversaries.
    We're all Rhodesians now.

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    Politics.ie Member TheWexfordInn's Avatar
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    I would hope that the Gardai will look to press charges against anyone who arrives back in the country having taken part in any fighting in Libya, Syria or anywhere else.

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    Politics.ie Member theloner's Avatar
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    RIP Shamseddin Gaidan.
    'Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWexfordInn View Post
    I would hope that the Gardai will look to press charges against anyone who arrives back in the country having taken part in any fighting in Libya, Syria or anywhere else.
    I wouldn't hold my breath.
    They seem to have very little clue as to who wanders into the country at all.
    At some point the gloves must come off and we face our adversaries.
    We're all Rhodesians now.

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    Politics.ie Member Lempo's Avatar
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    Now when did the Whitey ever tell a Muslim to pick up a gun? Haven't they in the big scale always been more or less equal, with their own empires and such, having even matches with the white in Spain, Byzantine Empire, etc. and not under white oppression, like many other segments of the mankind?

    I almost felt that George W. Bush in his days set out to correct what in his view was a historical "wrong".

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    Politics.ie Member Astral Peaks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWexfordInn View Post
    I would hope that the Gardai will look to press charges against anyone who arrives back in the country having taken part in any fighting in Libya, Syria or anywhere else.
    What charges should they level at such persons?

    Precisely, please?
    "Don't need a whore, I don't need no booze, don't need a virgin priest."

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    Politics.ie Member Morgellons's Avatar
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    Was he getting money for fighting in Syria? I remember the man back from Libya who was feted on the Late Late Show, he was a paid mercenery.

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    Politics.ie Member Nemesiscorporation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stopdoingstuff View Post
    Boy (16) from Ireland dies fighting for Syrian rebels - Independent.ie

    I want to preface this thread by saying that the family of this young man are still living and working in Ireland, and that I would hope that whatever way way this discussion goes it is conducted in a manner that is sensitive to the family's loss. For me this means focusing more on the generality of the issues raised and refraining from saying too much about the familiy directly. This could very well prove impossible, so I will understand if the moderators shut it down. I also apologize if I have more faith in the capacity of our posters for sensitivity and self-restraint than is justified.

    Basically, a 16 year old kid from Libya who spent 12 years living in Ireland has been killed when fighting against the Assad regime. A few months ago, the same thing happened to a 23 year old Egyptian who had also spent a long time here was killed in the same conflict under similar circumstances.

    On reading this, I was struck by the fact that a person who basically grew up and was educated here somehow became embroiled in a conflict in a far-off land, a conflict to which he perhaps felt some connection due to his identity as a Muslim.

    Is this something we should be worried about? Does it point to a failure to integrate? Does it mean that there is a radical element in our society or at least a certain constituency prone to foreign radicalization? Does it point to at least the possibility that somewhere down the line, maybe because of our involvement in the EU war in North Africa, we might experience some very unpleasant blowback? If these fears are justified or at least not entirely unreasonable, what is the correct political response? Is there a way of dealing with this without succumbing to irrational fears and unjustified stereotyping that might quite likely inflame matters? Does it show that we need to rethink our immigration policies, or maybe even go so far as having an immigration policy to begin with? If kids can end up in Syria, can't they also end up in the Islamic Maghreb or a madrassa in Afghanistan?

    Or is it just a case of either two easily led kids or perhaps two kids who had the courage to stand up to an undoubtedly tyrannical regime? After all, if Obama is actually arming the Syrian opposition, then why would we criticize two kids who were doing their bit? Could it be that I am actually a total racist whose only actual issue is that a Muslim picked up a gun without whitey telling him to?
    This is a tragic situation.

    I assume I will get pillared with the usual screams of hysteria from one section of politics.ie about this and be accused of being anti-muslim by another section of politics.ie.

    Unfortunately it is not the first time and it will not be the last time this happens.

    Unlike most of the posters who rant here about muslims and on the flip side, those who support everything a jihadist does, I have personally known muslims over the years as friends and work colleagues as well as having been attacked by an Algerian nutjob who had to get therapy (no joke, at Swedish government expense) because I shared my Scots-Irish culture with him when he decided to try to share his wahabbi (specific, not general to all muslims) culture with me by thinking it was his right to rape me. He may have fractured my leg, but he came off a lot worse than me.

    There is a minority in the muslim community who encourage a distorted use of Jihad to get young men and women (yes sometimes women as well) to go and fight against some percieved enemy (nearly always percieved, rarely actual). Then the entire muslim community in a particular country gets it in the neck, because of the actions of only a few people. For example Spain with the Madrid train bombings. That in turn creates a vicious cycle in which people are excluded from society and then the Jihadies pick them up and try to turn them into terrorists.

    The small minority who go go out and fight are not the real problem, contrary to what so many people claim. They are a sympton.

    The real problem is the crazy preachers or more accurately, the Saudi backed wahabbi immans.

    In various mosques there are Immans who are fairly laid back, do there equivalent of a mass and thats that. Then there are the Saudi backed Wahabbi nutcases who preach for muslims to attack everyone in the west, including Ireland, regardless of what any idiot who thinks they know better, states.

    Even before 911 Ireland was considered a target for the wahabbi nutters. After all Ireland sent thousands of priests, nuns and christian brothers out across the world to convert people to catholicism, inluding muslims. At some point there is going to be serious payback in Ireland for that. Everyone will blame rendition through Shannon but the actual cause will be 1000 years of conversion by Irish priests, nuns and christian brothers of muslims. That is a serious bug bear witha lot of muslims.

    It is not a case of if the jihadi's will attack Ireland, but more a case of when. When that happens, ordinary muslims who are struggling with mortgages, trying to feed and clothe there kids and who call the cute heurs in the Dail for everything for not sorting the economy out, will be the ones blamed and ostracised, not the wahabbi nutters.

    In Ireland FG, FF, Labour, SF, SWP, ULA, DUP, SDLP, UUP, Alliance and DUP all fall over themselves to suck up to the wahabbi nutters. Mostly that is because they are a good back door to Saudi Arabia and lots of money for FDI. SF, Labour, SWP and ULA also have the added incentive because they think it is politically correct to suck up to them and condemn Israel at every turn. Regardless of what ones opinion is of Israel, they don't seem to have the brains to realise that a repeat of the Breslan school attacks or attacks on some other large gathering of people in Ireland would be seen by the wahabbi's as a brilliant thing. They are to blinkered by there hatred of people they consider 'others' to stop and think that sometimes the enemy of my enemy is also my enemy.

    People like SF, ULA, SWP and other idiots also swoon over the jihadi's, yet have no time for the ordinary muslim who has suffered at the hands of jihadi nutters. The average muslim I know is seriously pissed of at people who think supporting Jihadi's is the correct thing to do. They know full well what sort of lunatics they are.

    Unfortunately in Ireland everyone's perception of muslims is coloured by the small eternal conflict over the pieces of parched ground that are known as Palestine and Israel, which after another couple of decades of global warming will probably be uninhabitable anyway. The conflicts in Turkey, Iraq, Eqypt, Mali, Chad, Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan and minority conflicts in India, Burma, Thailand, etc are not isolated. They have been growing in the last few decades, funded by Saudi money. The fact that Osama Bin Ladin was close to being a billionaire seems to have escaped most peoples attention span. Most of the fighting in various parts of the world, is being bank rolled by rich Saudi's with family connections to the Saudi Government.

    What most Irish need to get into there heads is this. This nonsense has been growing for decades. Sooner or later it is going to come to Irish shores, not if.

    Also the local muslims who are integrated into Irish society, are not part of the problem and they will not be to blame, although they will be blamed anyway, starting another cycle of isolation, politicisation, extremists and then violence.

    The wahabbi nutters who segregate themselves from local people and don't allow there kids to mix with Irish kids are the problem. Our so called leaders need to be told to stop pandering to them.

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    Politics.ie Member firefly123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stopdoingstuff View Post
    Boy (16) from Ireland dies fighting for Syrian rebels - Independent.ie

    I want to preface this thread by saying that the family of this young man are still living and working in Ireland, and that I would hope that whatever way way this discussion goes it is conducted in a manner that is sensitive to the family's loss. For me this means focusing more on the generality of the issues raised and refraining from saying too much about the familiy directly. This could very well prove impossible, so I will understand if the moderators shut it down. I also apologize if I have more faith in the capacity of our posters for sensitivity and self-restraint than is justified.

    Basically, a 16 year old kid from Libya who spent 12 years living in Ireland has been killed when fighting against the Assad regime. A few months ago, the same thing happened to a 23 year old Egyptian who had also spent a long time here was killed in the same conflict under similar circumstances.

    On reading this, I was struck by the fact that a person who basically grew up and was educated here somehow became embroiled in a conflict in a far-off land, a conflict to which he perhaps felt some connection due to his identity as a Muslim.

    Is this something we should be worried about? Does it point to a failure to integrate? Does it mean that there is a radical element in our society or at least a certain constituency prone to foreign radicalization? Does it point to at least the possibility that somewhere down the line, maybe because of our involvement in the EU war in North Africa, we might experience some very unpleasant blowback? If these fears are justified or at least not entirely unreasonable, what is the correct political response? Is there a way of dealing with this without succumbing to irrational fears and unjustified stereotyping that might quite likely inflame matters? Does it show that we need to rethink our immigration policies, or maybe even go so far as having an immigration policy to begin with? If kids can end up in Syria, can't they also end up in the Islamic Maghreb or a madrassa in Afghanistan?

    Or is it just a case of either two easily led kids or perhaps two kids who had the courage to stand up to an undoubtedly tyrannical regime? After all, if Obama is actually arming the Syrian opposition, then why would we criticize two kids who were doing their bit? Could it be that I am actually a total racist whose only actual issue is that a Muslim picked up a gun without whitey telling him to?
    It would similar to the Irish boys who fought in the Spanish civil war(on both sides) for idealogical reason plus he was a 16 year old on an adventure. I'm sure he regretted his decision whilst embroiled in the war which ( looking at videos on the web) is a slaughter on both sides. May he rest in peace.
    Life is hard
    That's why no-one survives

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