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Thread: A nation without a large middle class

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    Default A nation without a large middle class

    The middle class is what allows a 3rd world country to become 1st world. The explosion of our mortgage bubble seems to have blown Ireland's middle away. A chunk of people, about a third, who are doing Okay but not enough to be properly rich.

    I'm talking about economics, of course, not wishy-washy stuff like "values" and all that.

    A lot of people ask me why, given that I never mortgaged up during the bubble, I want some kind of partial debt forgiveness for the people who did. The answer is not generosity, but rather that I really do not want Ireland to become a third world country. And in the absence of a large middle class, nothing else is possible. Right now, a large proportion of people who were born in the 1970s are underwater on the mortgage, and that's killing the economy.

    We can see a similar process going on in Spain. Not only that, it's the same thing all over again for them. After Franco took over, a nascent middle class was wiped out and living standards went back to 1880s levels for most of Spain.

    Even if you are upper-class, you really should be scared of Ireland taking the 3rd world route. Who's going to take care of you when you're old and sick? It's doubtful that, in a 3rd world situation, governments will be able to get away with subsidising high-quality private health care for the rich with doctors for the poor. The rich are going to have to pay the considerable costs of health care all by themselves. That means that unless you're in the top 1%, you will end up being thankful if you manage to get a trolley in the hall.

    Health, infrastructure and other trappings of the 1st world set are all predicated on a large, prosperous middle class. With only a small middle class, those things will necessarily get scaled back.
    When you see the words "Mises" or "Hayek" in someone's post, just ask yourself: do I really want to ban paper money and go back to gold?

    You have to pity the kind of people who buy into conspiracy theories. I find the following to be the saddest words on the internet: "Re: connection between Bilderberg puppet lady gaga and viral outbreak in ukraine "

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    I'm still awaiting a definition of 'middle class'.
    Once your ability to function within society depends on a government controlled ID card then you are no longer a free citizen.

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    Politics.ie Member Analyzer's Avatar
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    In Ireland, the middle class is shrinking. The right incentives are in place to ensure that this trend stays in place, and accelerates.

    The working class is being treated with contempt, and being lied to. And this looks certain to continue.

    The underclass is growing. The correct incentives are in place to encourage this also.

    And the tax exile class is feted by the media. This is looking like it is facing an economic problem, therefore the media wants more compulsory taxes from the middle class and the working class, so as to incentivize this also.

    And the plutocrat class wants to congratulate the working class, and the middle class for doing the responsible thing (and bailing out their own irresponsibility).

    The key to unravelling the lot, I reckon, is the media.
    Coveney's ambition is the be Ireland's next EU Commissar and Ireland will pay a price as he builds his CV to position himself sufficiently loyal to the nEU empire.

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    Eddie Hobbs uses the description "the muddle class".
    Coveney's ambition is the be Ireland's next EU Commissar and Ireland will pay a price as he builds his CV to position himself sufficiently loyal to the nEU empire.

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    Politics.ie Member Northsideman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad as fish View Post
    i'm still awaiting a definition of 'middle class'.
    farmers
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
    George Orwell

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    Politics.ie Member Tin Foil Hat's Avatar
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    When we started describing those who pay their own way as 'privileged' and started treating those living off handouts as 'victims' was the point when we kissed this country goodbye.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad as Fish View Post
    I'm still awaiting a definition of 'middle class'.
    It's the group that are not nobility but not working class. In Ireland, over 50% of the population receive some sort of benefits, the middle class is very small and getting smaller.

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    Politics.ie Member commonman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad as Fish View Post
    I'm still awaiting a definition of 'middle class'.

    I look at my middle and she says its class

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    Politics.ie Member Northsideman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frequency View Post
    It's the group that are not nobility but not working class. In Ireland, over 50% of the population receive some sort of benefits, the middle class is very small and getting smaller.
    Everyone with kids receive benefits including the middle and upper classes so that accounts for a massive chunk.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
    George Orwell

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    Politics.ie Member Northsideman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by commonman View Post
    I look at my middle and she says its class
    Liar
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
    George Orwell

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