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Thread: Newly qualified second level teachers in the UK are being paid 15% greater than in Ireland.

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    Politics.ie Member RobertW's Avatar
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    Default Newly qualified second level teachers in the UK are being paid 15% greater than in Ireland.

    The Irish Independent has a very interesting article today (18 February) stating that thousands of newly qualified Irish teachers are being hired in the UK on salaries and contracts far greater than they would receive in Ireland.

    Teachers targeted for jobs in UK - Independent.ie

    The article states that new second teachers in Ireland receive €27,617. . . Assuming they have a full-time contract.
    This is actually untrue with the real figure being €30,702

    http://www.education.ie/en/Circulars...l0008_2013.pdf

    The article states that new second level teachers are being employed in the UK on €27,167 basic with an additional accommodation allowance of approximately €8,127 and additional allowances for flights and food (although no figures are supplied for flights and food).

    Leaving aside the UK allowances for flights and food this leaves the UK gross wage for teachers leaving Ireland on €35,294 or approximately 15% greater than the wage they would receive in Ireland.

    Given the fact that no pension levy is paid in the UK (as is the case in Ireland) the disparity in the net wage would be far greater - taking the net value to in excess of 20%.

    This all assumes that the new Irish second level teacher receives a full time contract in the first place. . . . Which is extremely rare.

    Add in additional UK benefits such as security of tenure in the UK, a lower cost economy and the fact that the new UK teacher can actually be promoted (something unavailable to the teacher in Ireland) and it's quite clear that the terms and conditions of employment in the UK are now far greater than they are in Ireland for new second level teachers.

    Note that it is the intention of the government to increase this greater UK-Ireland difference under the terms of Croke Park 2.

    The loonarati of p.ie are not going to like this one.

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    Politics.ie Member greengoose2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertW View Post
    The Irish Independent has a very interesting article today (18 February) stating that thousands of newly qualified Irish teachers are being hired in the UK on salaries and contracts far greater than they would receive in Ireland.

    Teachers targeted for jobs in UK - Independent.ie

    The article states that new second teachers in Ireland receive €27,617. . . Assuming they have a full-time contract.
    This is actually untrue with the real figure being €30,702

    http://www.education.ie/en/Circulars...l0008_2013.pdf

    The article states that new second level teachers are being employed in the UK on €27,167 basic with an additional accommodation allowance of approximately €8,127 and additional allowances for flights and food (although no figures are supplied for flights and food).

    Leaving aside the UK allowances for flights and food this leaves the UK gross wage for teachers leaving Ireland on €35,294 or approximately 15% greater than the wage they would receive in Ireland.

    Given the fact that no pension levy is paid in the UK (as is the case in Ireland) the disparity in the net wage would be far greater - taking the net value to in excess of 20%.

    This all assumes that the new Irish second level teacher receives a full time contract in the first place. . . . Which is extremely rare.

    Add in additional UK benefits such as security of tenure in the UK, a lower cost economy and the fact that the new UK teacher can actually be promoted (something unavailable to the teacher in Ireland) and it's quite clear that the terms and conditions of employment in the UK are now far greater than they are in Ireland for new second level teachers.

    Note that it is the intention of the government to increase this greater UK-Ireland difference under the terms of Croke Park 2.

    The loonarati of p.ie are not going to like this one.

    As the leading loonerate on p.ie you might consider moving to the UK and taking your whingeing along with you. The other contributors are going to love this. Watch out for missiles!

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    Politics.ie Member Sync's Avatar
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    Interesting. So an employer in a country that needs more of a type of worker is offering more than an employer in a country that has an over abundance of that type of worker. Revolutionary.

    We should come up with a name for this phenomenon. It needs to be catchy and memorable. Something like supply and demand?
    I'm living in America, and in America, you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business. Now f***ing pay me.

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    School teachers in the uk get a hell of a lot less holidays than in ireland

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    Politics.ie Member RobertW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greengoose2 View Post
    As the leading loonerate on p.ie you might consider moving to the UK and taking your whingeing along with you. The other contributors are going to love this. Watch out for missiles!
    Hear that?

    That's the sound of silence from your post there Greengoose. . . No argument.

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    Politics.ie Member RobertW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sync View Post
    Interesting. So an employer in a country that needs more of a type of worker is offering more than an employer in a country that has an over abundance of that type of worker. Revolutionary.

    We should come up with a name for this phenomenon. It needs to be catchy and memorable. Something like supply and demand?
    Ah yea. . Now I get it.

    Fr years we had the teachers in the UK supposedly paid a lot less than in Ireland. Now we're getting the Supply/Demand argument.

    Surely now we could apply that right across the economy.

    In fact go into your boss' office this morning and tell him you're prepared to recognise that there are unemployed people as equally qualified as you and, as a result, you're prepared to work for, say, 20% less.

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    Politics.ie Member greengoose2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertW View Post
    Hear that?

    That's the sound of silence from your post there Greengoose. . . No argument.
    Get the name right sir! Then make an effort to be sensible and get on with annoying your unlucky pupils...

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    Politics.ie Member RobertW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Zordan View Post
    School teachers in the uk get a hell of a lot less holidays than in ireland
    Teachers in Irish schools work longer hours in the classroom

    http://www.politics.ie/forum/educati...-eu-state.html

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    Politics.ie Member RobertW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greengoose2 View Post
    Get the name right sir! Then make an effort to be sensible and get on with annoying your unlucky pupils...
    I'm still waiting for an argument



    Ah yes. . . The sound of silence

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    Politics.ie Member Sync's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertW View Post
    Ah yea. . Now I get it.

    Fr years we had the teachers in the UK supposedly paid a lot less than in Ireland. Now we're getting the Supply/Demand argument.
    In my defence, I've pretty much always been about supply and demand in every industry. We have a minimum wage. Above that, if you can get qualified, competent staff in the numbers you need to staff the classrooms for 20% less than the current starting price, then you drop the starting price to that amount.

    Surely now we could apply that right across the economy.
    Yup.

    In fact go into your boss' office this morning and tell him you're prepared to recognise that there are unemployed people as equally qualified as you and, as a result, you're prepared to work for, say, 20% less.
    If there are a bunch of unemployed people as qualified as me in my role willing to work for 20% less then I'd expect my company to gut my team with redundancies and replace us over time. I've seen it happen in 2 of my previous companies, an entire level of management gotten rid of and then replaced over time by cheaper available equivilant talents.

    Supply of similar labour certainly informs decisions relating to my pay/bonus. If there's 5000 people in Ireland able to do my job then when I go for a new role I can expect my salary offer to reflect that.

    It's like all those much malligned bankers out there, if you're a risk/compliance/auditor AIBer who wants a raise you get told to do one because there's a bunch of you out there in Ireland and because you can be replaced for less. That same person has a different conversation in UK/Switzerland because there's a demand there for those skills.

    To the unemployed banker citing wages in the UK when he goes for a job I say: Go to the UK. We have lots of people willing to do your job for less. I say the same thing to teachers.

    In practical terms, rather than unrealistically asking for what people in high deman countries are asking for, focus on reducing supply here. Numbers for Arts courses were down 6% last year, but they're still too high. Bump up the points numbers and reduce the amount of teachers in the pipeline. Right now there's simply too many of them actively looking for employment to justify an increase in wages.
    Last edited by Sync; 18th February 2013 at 11:02 AM.
    I'm living in America, and in America, you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business. Now f***ing pay me.

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