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Thread: The expulsion of Germans from eastern Europe

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    Default The expulsion of Germans from eastern Europe

    An Irish historian RM Douglas has written a new book on the ethnic cleansing (there's no other word) of German minorities from central and eastern Europe in 1945. Interview with him here on the New Books network.

    R. M. Douglas, “Orderly and Humane: The Expulsion of the Germans after the Second World War” (Yale UP, 2012)

    What's really chilling is that apparently the western allies (as well as the Soviets) planned this and knew that there would be a humanitarian disaster, but basically didn't care as they thought leaving German minorities in place would lead to more wars in the future.

    Now I know a lot people will just say, 'they had it coming' due to what the Germans did in the war, but apparently between 500,000 to 1.5 million people lost their lives in this episode. A dark chapter.

    Edit: apparently he also wrote a book on the Irish wartime fascist group Ailteori na hAisergi ('Architects of the Resurrection'). http://counterenlightenment.blogspot...ection-by.html
    Last edited by JohnD66; 15th February 2013 at 11:43 AM.

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    Politics.ie Member parentheses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnD66 View Post
    An Irish historian RM Douglas has written a new book on the ethnic cleansing (there's no other word) of German minorities from central and eastern Europe in 1945. Interview with him here on the New Books network.

    R. M. Douglas, “Orderly and Humane: The Expulsion of the Germans after the Second World War” (Yale UP, 2012)


    What's really chilling is that apparently the western allies (as well as the Soviets) planned this and knew that there would be a humanitarian disaster, but basically didn't care as they thought leaving German minorities in place would lead to more wars in the future.

    Now I know a lot people will just say, 'they had it coming' due to what the Germans did in the war, but apparently between 500,000 to 1.5 million people lost their lives in this episode. A dark chapter.
    It was inevitable though. The German minorities had helped to destabilise and destroy their host countries.

    And the Nazi authorities should have evacuated those areas in a timely manner in any case.

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    Indeed, while you wouldn't condone it, at the same time it is very easy to understand it.

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    Hindsight is such a wonderful thing. The allies had just been through the most cataclysmic event of the twentieth century. They had every reason to fear another war given how easily the German people were captivated by Hitler. Barbaric as it seems to us now, they really had no other choice in 1945 if they were to stabilise Europe.
    If you continue to elect idiots in elections, don't be surprised when the result is an idiotic government.

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    Lots of individually sad stories but inevitable given what the Nazis did. Mind you there were enough Nazis in the countries of Poland, Croatia, Lithuania, Latvia, etcetera.

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    Victor's justice.

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    Politics.ie Member Casablanca's Avatar
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    There are 2 other interesting books on this subject as well:

    Savage Continent: Europe in the Aftermath of World War II: Keith Lowe
    After the Reich: The Brutal History of the Allied Occupation: Giles MacDonagh.

    I think it's a fascinating subject and it interests me in a slightly different. I travel to Berlin a lot and have made some German friends over the years. I think the events of the aftermath of the war did as much to shape the Germanic work ethic and frugality as did the war itself. I know it's popular on P.ie to lash out at Germany as the author of all our wrongs. I find that an over-simplification to put it mildly. I admire the country and it's people and in particular, their way of conducting business and their lifestyle choices. And that does not in any way, condone the German behaviour during the war. I can understand that it's human nature to seek revenge. As I said, it interests me more from the point of view of how it infuences Germany today.
    Even Educated Fleas Do It...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Casablanca View Post
    I think it's a fascinating subject and it interests me in a slightly different. I travel to Berlin a lot and have made some German friends over the years. I think the events of the aftermath of the war did as much to shape the Germanic work ethic and frugality as much as the war itself. I know it's popular on P.ie to lash out at Germany as the author of all our wrongs. I find that an over-simplification to put it mildly. I admire the country and it's people and in particular, their way of conducting business and their lifestyle choices.
    Indeed - in our current condition we could take a page from their book on how to pull yourself together!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Korean View Post
    Indeed - in our current condition we could take a page from their book on how to pull yourself together!
    they are a more serious people, I doubt they would have voted for the Nazi party again if they were allowed run in the 50's , Whats the bets FF will be in gov. again within 10 years?

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    I don't know folks this is the worst case of 'whataboutery' I've ever seen. You're talking in some cases about massacres of women and children to terrorise the others into leaving.

    If it was necessary surely there was some better way of doing it? Two wrongs (admittedly the first wrong is so horrible as to make almost anything imaginable) don't make a right surely?

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