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Thread: Can you be a socialist/Left wing and favour tough immigration laws?

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    Politics.ie Member regnal gib 1's Avatar
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    Default Can you be a socialist/Left wing and favour tough immigration laws?

    Was recently in a discussion with a few Labour youth guys about left wing policies/ideas. The topic of tougher immigration laws arose and the Labour guys were of the opinion, that one could not claim to be a Socialist if they favoured tough Immigration laws. How do P.ie posters view such a statement?

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    Politics.ie Member Dame_Enda's Avatar
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    I'm not a Socialist. Having said that, Socialism is about state control of the means of production. In theory it has nothing to do with immigration. It could be argued from a Socialist perspective that to preserve the affordability of the welfare-state, immigration should be controlled. It could also be argued that open borders allow employers to drive down wages, leading to increased poverty.
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    Politics.ie Member regnal gib 1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dame_Enda View Post
    I'm not a Socialist. Having said that, Socialism is about state control of the means of production. In theory it has nothing to do with immigration. It could be argued from a Socialist perspective that to preserve the affordability of the welfare-state, immigration should be controlled. It could also be argued that open borders allow employers to drive down wages, leading to increased poverty.
    Would agree with the above and mentioned a similar point but these guys were having none of it.

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    Politics.ie Member Dame_Enda's Avatar
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    Were any of them solicitors? The legal profession make bags of money from immigration related cases.
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    Quote Originally Posted by regnal gib 1 View Post
    Was recently in a discussion with a few Labour youth guys about left wing policies/ideas. The topic of tougher immigration laws arose and the Labour guys were of the opinion, that one could not claim to be a Socialist if they favoured tough Immigration laws. How do P.ie posters view such a statement?
    It's wrong. Full stop. Being a socialist doesn't mean you approve or disapprove of immigration.

    In fact, those most likely to be in favour of immigration are those who are on the opposite side of the political spectrum to socialists..... libertarians!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by regnal gib 1 View Post
    Was recently in a discussion with a few Labour youth guys about left wing policies/ideas. The topic of tougher immigration laws arose and the Labour guys were of the opinion, that one could not claim to be a Socialist if they favoured tough Immigration laws. How do P.ie posters view such a statement?
    Why would any sentient being allow themselves to have all of their views determined by a single political philosophy?

    Are they unable to think for themselves?

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    Quote Originally Posted by regnal gib 1 View Post
    Would agree with the above and mentioned a similar point but these guys were having none of it.
    Ask them how they would feel if their beloved welfare state were abolished (as it would if "relaxed" immigration were introduced)!

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    Politics.ie Member blokesbloke's Avatar
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    Of course you can. I suppose a lot of people would say if you're a true socialist you should apply those principles to everyone in the world.

    However it is clearly a nonsense that one country can take immigrants from every poor country and provide for them - it would cause the host country to collapse.

    A socialist will want to build a socialist society in their own country. They may want some immigration, but I don't see it as an instrinsic part of socialism.
    Brexit? Never heard of it mate...

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    Politics.ie Member darkhorse's Avatar
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    Its one of the rocks that destroys theoretical socialism
    Their core vote is supposed to be from the working classes
    But these are the jobs most vunerable to cheap immigrant labour
    Hence many of these communities vote for the far right in England - which may well happen here as well in time
    But of course we all know that most Irish 'Socialist' voters work for the State or are on welfare of some kind
    Most of the Irish 'working classes' always voted FF

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    Quote Originally Posted by regnal gib 1 View Post
    Was recently in a discussion with a few Labour youth guys about left wing policies/ideas. The topic of tougher immigration laws arose and the Labour guys were of the opinion, that one could not claim to be a Socialist if they favoured tough Immigration laws. How do P.ie posters view such a statement?
    Absolutely, most of the Bolivarian Socialist Republics in Latin America are extremely tough on immigrants.
    Migrating to Cuba is harder than entering the U.S.
    In Ecuador (hard left Govt.)you can't hire foreigners unless you first hire five native citizens. Then, after that it's only 1 immigrant for every 5 citizens you've employed.
    I actually think that should be brought into Ireland as well.
    Last edited by Truth.ie; 14th February 2013 at 10:46 PM.

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