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Thread: Deficit (2008-2013) contributes €94.5bn (49.2%) of National Debt: Bank Bailout 31.4%

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    Politics.ie Member Eric Cartman's Avatar
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    Default Deficit (2008-2013) contributes €94.5bn (49.2%) of National Debt: Bank Bailout 31.4%

    I was against the bank bailout. Still am.

    But, I was surprised by this:
    Finfacts Ireland Blog: Business & Finance: Irish National Debt: Public spending was 57.3% of GNP in 2009; Deficits in 2008-2013 will amount to

    Irish National Debt: Public spending was 57.3% of GNP in 2009; Deficits in 2008-2013 will amount to €95bn

    University College Cork (UCC) economist, Seamus Coffey, estimated last December that with GDP (gross domestic product) measured at €159.6bn in 2009, total government expenditure equates to 47.1% of GDP. The equivalent GNP figures (gross national product: excluding for example the profits of multinationals operating in Ireland) are €131.2bn and a staggering 57.3%. He asked: is there a higher figure in any country? Blog post

    Seamus Coffey said this week that the National Debt will be €192.8bn by the end of 2013. This is 113.5% of the IMF’s nominal GDP forecast for 2013. Here is a breakdown of the debt and the proportion attributed to each category.

    • Pre-crisis (2007) National Debt - €37.6bn, 19.5%
    • 2008-2013 deficit-related Debt - €94.9bn, 49.2%
    • Banking-related Debt - €60.5bn, 31.4%



    The economist said at the end-of 2013 we will have a huge debt. One-fifth will be what we brought with us into the crisis. Less than a third will be due to the bank bailout. About half of our debt will be due to our own deficits. By 2013 the bank recapitalisations will be over, and we may even see some small return on the money poured into AIB and BOI, with the toxic property loans NAMA process also well advanced. However, our Exchequer deficits will remain and will continue to require further borrowings. With the annual deficit still estimated to be 7.5% of GDP in 2013, the 113.5% Debt/GDP ratio at that stage will continue to increase. Blog Post
    How do critics of the EU/IMF Troika bank bailout feel about the fact that the money borrowed by the Troika was mainly used to plug our dreadful budget deficit primarily, provided we pay the banks' creditors secondarily?

    If the F.F./P.D./Green Government had had the courage to slash spending in 2010, when borrowing on the open market wasn't a possibility, we could've repudiated the bank debt (I'm sure we could have figured some legal dodge: the whole bank guarantee was built on some dubious promises by Seαn Fitzpatrick that Anglo-Irish's debt were in some way manageable: ditto the so-called "pillar banks").

    That deficit has resulted into almost €95bn debts, which considerably exceeds the bank bailout debt. That's extraordinary. That's Fianna Fαil's economic populism: public sector pay bench-marking and pensions, excessive welfare and State pension rises and general inefficient waste.

    What would the Labour Party, Sinn Fιin or the fringe socialists have done differently? Their answer, I'm sure, would've been €20bn new taxes annually.

    I'm angry with this new deal: the Anglo debt is now truly sovereign debt. Public sector pay reform is piece meal and there will be no great reform of welfare. The lazy spivs have won.

    For now, perhaps...

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    Politics.ie Member RobertW's Avatar
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    Public sector pay accounts for approximately 40% of revenue raised by the state . . .excluding any borrowing.

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    Politics.ie Member Telemachus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertW View Post
    Public sector pay accounts for approximately 40% of revenue raised by the state . . .excluding any borrowing.
    Not this again..
    ..the Irish nation can become other than white, by privileging the voices of the racialised and subverting state immigration but also integration policies. – Ronit Lentin

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    Politics.ie Member Eric Cartman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertW View Post
    Public sector pay accounts for approximately 40% of revenue raised by the state . . .excluding any borrowing.
    Do you have any links for this? Is this complete and utter bull************************?

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    Politics.ie Member dresden8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Telemachus View Post
    Not this again..
    I'm sure you'll understand if us public sector types lol at the irony of that statement.

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    Politics.ie Member RobertW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Do you have any links for this? Is this complete and utter bull************************?
    I love the way the facts contradict the views of the p.ie loonarati.

    The state pays its workers approximately 14.4 bn per year. . . And takes in approximately 36 bn in revenue (excluding any borrowing)

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    Politics.ie Member cabledude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertW View Post
    The state pays its workers approximately 14.4 bn per year. . . And takes in approximately 36 bn in revenue (excluding any borrowing)
    And it's too high. Public sector not 'bloated' but it is relatively well-paid - The Irish Times - Fri, Sep 14, 2012

    Last year, the slice of the national pie going to public employees – as measured by gross domestic product – was 11 per cent in the EU (10.6 per cent in the euro area). In Ireland, it was 12 per cent.

    As measured by gross national product, often considered a better indicator for this economy, the share stood at 15 per cent. By that measure, it was the third-highest among the 27 member countries.
    There are other calls on our exchequer taking's Robert. HSE, Social Welfare etc etc
    Stand there in silence, look up to the sky and remember how brave they were.

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    Politics.ie Member Telemachus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertW View Post
    I love the way the facts contradict the views of the p.ie loonarati.

    The state pays its workers approximately 14.4 bn per year. . . And takes in approximately 36 bn in revenue (excluding any borrowing)
    Lets double their pay so.
    ..the Irish nation can become other than white, by privileging the voices of the racialised and subverting state immigration but also integration policies. – Ronit Lentin

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    Politics.ie Member hammer's Avatar
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    It will all be ok when we balance the books in 2116.

    Dont be worrying about the same thread re-jigged for the 50th time.

    THE ANNUAL DEFICIT IS THE PROBLEM.

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    Politics.ie Member Telemachus's Avatar
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    I'm waiting for some "economist", populist or official to come out with a study showing that the demographic situation in europe and the unfunded pension liabilities and the rest of the debt are going to wipe out this stupid EU project.

    I'm sick of these guys looking at the short-term picture. They cant see the wood for the trees in a major way.
    ..the Irish nation can become other than white, by privileging the voices of the racialised and subverting state immigration but also integration policies. – Ronit Lentin

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