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Thread: What if the Nazis and Soviets had made peace in 1943?

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    Politics.ie Member parentheses's Avatar
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    Default What if the Nazis and Soviets had made peace in 1943?

    Reading Sir Basil Liddell Hart's book, History of the Second World War, I was greatly surprised to see the Nazis and Soviets discussed an end to their war in 1943.

    Liddell Hart claims Ribbentrop and Molotov had a meeting in Kirovograd behind the German lines in June 1943. The talks broke down however because the Nazis wanted to keep control of Soviet territory west of the Dneppr river while the Soviets wanted restoration of the 1941 frontier.

    If peace had occurred between the two dictatorial superpowers might Nazi Germany have survived?

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    Politics.ie Member ruserious's Avatar
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    Dictatorial superpowers tend to fade eventually regardless.
    Boycott the "Irish" Sun rag.

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    Politics.ie Member H.R. Haldeman's Avatar
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    Hitler would have had Ribbentrop's nutsack for talking to the enemy behind his back.

    If the suggestion is that the solution might have involved Hitler being gotten out of the way, I don't think we have the evidence that his generals or senior political lieutenants had the ability or inclination to move on him in 1943 anyway. They were still in thrall to him for at least another year after that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruserious View Post
    Dictatorial superpowers tend to fade eventually regardless.
    all kind of powers fade eventually regardless.

    German and Russian had the Ribbentrop–Molotov Pact or Nazi–Soviet Pact since 1939. The question should be would have happened if Hitler had not broken the pact. And why did he change his mind in 1941.

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    Politics.ie Member parentheses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.R. Haldeman View Post
    Hitler would have had Ribbentrop's nutsack for talking to the enemy behind his back.

    If the suggestion is that the solution might have involved Hitler being gotten out of the way, I don't think we have the evidence that his generals or senior political lieutenants had the ability or inclination to move on him in 1943 anyway. They were still in thrall to him for at least another year after that.
    Liddel Hart does not specifically say, but it seems to me Ribbentrop was speaking witht the approval of Hitler. Liddell Hart says his source is unnamed German officers who participated in the talks. After the war, Lidell Hart interviewed many former German officers.

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    Politics.ie Member making waves's Avatar
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    The number one objectve of the Nazis was the destruction of the USSR - any so-called peace talks by the Nazis would have been a holding manoeuvre in order to regroup and resupply for a new offensive (just as the 1939 pact was designed to facilite Nazi invasion of western Europe prior to operation barbarossa).
    Separate Church and State

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    Politics.ie Member Asparagus's Avatar
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    Extreme right wing whackos plus Extreme fake Left wing whackos.

    Sounds like the FLabourG coalition.

    So the germans and the russians would all be in multi generational debt to us
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    Politics.ie Member H.R. Haldeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parentheses View Post
    Liddel Hart does not specifically say, but it seems to me Ribbentrop was speaking witht the approval of Hitler. Liddell Hart says his source is unnamed German officers who participated in the talks. After the war, Lidell Hart interviewed many former German officers.

    Ah, thanks for clarification.

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    Politics.ie Member Eire1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parentheses View Post
    Reading Sir Basil Liddell Hart's book, History of the Second World War, I was greatly surprised to see the Nazis and Soviets discussed an end to their war in 1943.

    Liddell Hart claims Ribbentrop and Molotov had a meeting in Kirovograd behind the German lines in June 1943. The talks broke down however because the Nazis wanted to keep control of Soviet territory west of the Dneppr river while the Soviets wanted restoration of the 1941 frontier.

    If peace had occurred between the two dictatorial superpowers might Nazi Germany have survived?
    The British would never of allowed this happen as Churchill promised Uncle Joe East Europe if he kept going till Berlin.

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    Politics.ie Member Dadaist's Avatar
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    By that stage Germany had obviously shown their intent. They could have agreed to a temporary truce but Germany would never have allowed the Soviet Union to rearm. Why would Germany turn away from their main goal, when no western allied boots were marching on mainland Europe by that date.

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