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Thread: Ongoing "negotiations" on Croke Park 2 should be televised live and not held in secret.

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    Politics.ie Member RobertW's Avatar
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    Default Ongoing "negotiations" on Croke Park 2 should be televised live and not held in secret.

    Currently ongoing negotiations between public sector unions and senior civil servants, FG & Labour politicians are occurring in secret and behind close doors with information unavailable to the public.

    Union leaders are not informing their members, politicians are not informing those who they represent whilst journalists feed off scraps of information looking for a headline the following morning.

    But should this really be the case?

    These ongoing negotiations (if you could call them that) should be televised live and recorded in the national interest.

    The public and the taxpayer have a right to know.

    But as Enda Kenny might say. . . . Paddy doesn't need to know the story.

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    Politics.ie Member livingstone's Avatar
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    Rubbish. Governments are elected to govern and part of that is negotiation.

    Negotiation by megaphone, or negotiation conducted in public is pointless. Negotiations produce results and these results will be subject to normal scrutiny - i.e. usually a vote by unions and the public can judge a Government based on the outcome of negotiations.

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    Politics.ie Member Rocky's Avatar
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    No negotiations of this type are ever done in public as it would be impossible for both sides to speak honestly or ever compromise.
    "Give us the future, we've had enough of YOUR past, Give us back our country, to live in, to grow in and to love..."

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    Politics.ie Member Disillusioned democrat's Avatar
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    If these negotiations are indeed happening then it's a complete travesty of democracy and a completely fubar way to run the country.

    For no reason I can really understand successive governments feel more aligned the will of their employees rather than the people who pay their own salaries - the tax payer.

    It seems that no government has every set up ways to have two way dialogue with the tax payers to understand what we perceive as value for money and good service.
    The more things change....

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    Politics.ie Member livingstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disillusioned democrat View Post
    If these negotiations are indeed happening then it's a complete travesty of democracy and a completely fubar way to run the country.

    For no reason I can really understand successive governments feel more aligned the will of their employees rather than the people who pay their own salaries - the tax payer.

    It seems that no government has every set up ways to have two way dialogue with the tax payers to understand what we perceive as value for money and good service.

    Negotiations with the taxpayers are called elections.

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    Politics.ie Member RobertW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livingstone View Post
    Rubbish. Governments are elected to govern and part of that is negotiation.

    Negotiation by megaphone, or negotiation conducted in public is pointless. Negotiations produce results and these results will be subject to normal scrutiny - i.e. usually a vote by unions and the public can judge a Government based on the outcome of negotiations.
    I suppose you'd have felt that screening the Leveson enquiry LIVE into journalist phone tapping in the UK was rubbish.

    It's called accountability and transparency. . . Go and look them up in the dictionary.

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    Politics.ie Member Rocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertW View Post
    I suppose you'd have felt that screening the Leveson enquiry LIVE into journalist phone tapping in the UK was rubbish.

    It's called accountability and transparency. . . Go and look them up in the dictionary.
    The leveson enquiry weren't negotitations. It was an enquiry. They aren't comparable.
    "Give us the future, we've had enough of YOUR past, Give us back our country, to live in, to grow in and to love..."

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    Politics.ie Member livingstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertW View Post
    I suppose you'd have felt that screening the Leveson enquiry LIVE into journalist phone tapping in the UK was rubbish.

    It's called accountability and transparency. . . Go and look them up in the dictionary.

    As has been noted, there is a huge difference.

    Negotiations mean give and take, it means exploring options out of the glare of scrutiny to arrive at a suitable solution. That cannot happen in public, which is why no successful negotiations anywhere, ever, are made public while they are ongoing.

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    Politics.ie Member Thac0man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertW View Post
    I suppose you'd have felt that screening the Leveson enquiry LIVE into journalist phone tapping in the UK was rubbish.

    It's called accountability and transparency. . . Go and look them up in the dictionary.
    I can see the point you are making. But both sides are going to start with positions and figures the other side is not going to accept. If the full details are known, then someone will look like a loser at the end if their initial conditions are not met. Full transparency carries with it the threat that proceedings might never result in compromise.

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    Politics.ie Member Rocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thac0man View Post
    I can see the point you are making. But both sides are going to start with positions and figures the other side is not going to accept. If the full details are known, then someone will look like a loser at the end if their initial conditions are not met. Full transparency carries with it the threat that proceedings might never result in compromise.
    I think full transparency carries the guarantee that proceedings will never result in compromise. No negotiations ever are done in public for that exact reason.
    "Give us the future, we've had enough of YOUR past, Give us back our country, to live in, to grow in and to love..."

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