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Thread: No Legal Fees cut with new Legal Services Regulation Bill

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    Default No Legal Fees cut with new Legal Services Regulation Bill

    Lawyers dont expect fees to be affected with new bill.

    Majority of solicitors don

    http://www.lawsociety.ie/Global/eNew...-firms2012.pdf

    A CLEAR MAJORITY of Irish law firms have said they do not expect Alan Shatter’s legislation on reforming the legal profession to lower the fees they charge to clients


    How are we going to stop these people getting away with leeching of the state ( YOU )
    They will protect their outrageous fees till the death. YOU pay a huge amount of those fees.
    This money could go to schools or hospitals.

    we are a very ignorant people
    and deserve everything we get

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    If Mr. Shatter's proposals become law they will significantly reduce access to justice for the ordinary person in Ireland. They are not designed to reduce legal costs. The bits of information in the public domain about the Minister's practice as a solicitor would tell you that!

    The price of legal services charged to clients in Ireland has collapsed due to the tried and tested operation of market forces. Corporate and individual clients (including the State) have less money. They are not prepared to pay the level of fees that used to be charged and have cut their cloth accordingly.

    The State has slashed the amount it pays in legal fees. The OP is misinformed.
    Last edited by Eye of Angkor; 30th January 2013 at 02:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eye of Angkor View Post
    If Mr. Shatter's proposals become law they will significantly reduce access to justice for the ordinary person in Ireland. They are not designed to reduce legal costs. The bits of information in the puiblic domain about the Minister's practice as a solicitor would tell you that!

    The price of legal services charged to clients in Ireland has collapsed due to the tried and tested operation of market forces. Corporate and individual clients (including the State) have less money. They are not prepared to pay the level of fees that used to be charged and have cut their cloth accordingly.

    The State has slashed the amount it pays in legal fees. The OP is misinformed.
    can you please give specifics

    as usual the legal profession lovers give the bs line, costs are slashed, what does slashed mean ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkkkkkkkkk View Post
    can you please give specifics

    as usual the legal profession lovers give the bs line, costs are slashed, what does slashed mean ?
    Over 50% for work done for the Office of the Attorney General.

    The cuts in fees paid to prosecution and defence lawyers in criminal matters has been cut by c. 35%.

    You might recall that when Mr. Shatter proposed to cut the amount paid to defence lawyers to an amount below that paid to prosecutors the Bar protested. The result was that both sets of fees were cut.

    The Taxing Master (an appointee of Mr. Shatter's) has also embarked on a slashing exercise, reducing fees by over 50%. Whilst some of it may be justified, some of it in fact takes no account of the work actually done in the case.

    As for the private sector, I would estimate that fees have fallen between 1/3 and 1/2 since 2008. That is if you get paid. A common tactic of chancers (many of whom present as reasonable people) is to complain to the Law Society about the level of fees in order to postpone payment. When the Law Society points out that the fees charged are reasonable they come up with some other excuse.

    I would like to see how that would work with electrictians, plumbers, roofers etc, not to mention doctors, vets, accountants.

    As always, the "bs line" emmanates from those who are ignorant of the realities of life.

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    Hey Special K, I thought you said Shatter was going to sort out all those legal leeches once and for all? What's happened to your hero?

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    Quote Originally Posted by borntorum View Post
    Hey Special K, I thought you said Shatter was going to sort out all those legal leeches once and for all? What's happened to your hero?
    it was the other way around, they sorted him again, this is the 2nd time that he has been left with egg on his puss remember the referendum incident when the mullah and his cohorts wiped the street with him.

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    Politics.ie Member pinemartin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eye of Angkor View Post
    Over 50% for work done for the Office of the Attorney General.

    The cuts in fees paid to prosecution and defence lawyers in criminal matters has been cut by c. 35%.
    When you say a cut of 50% or 35%, what does that mean in real terms? How much do they actually get paid per hour/ day?

    It is like saying that Marian Finucane has taken a cut of 15%( i dont know if she has) and thinking that is reasonable when in fact she is getting paid an exorbitant rate in the first instance. You cannot make a value judgement on fees by looking at the % they were cut when you do not know how much they were in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinemartin View Post
    When you say a cut of 50% or 35%, what does that mean in real terms? How much do they actually get paid per hour/ day?

    It is like saying that Marian Finucane has taken a cut of 15%( i dont know if she has) and thinking that is reasonable when in fact she is getting paid an exorbitant rate in the first instance. You cannot make a value judgement on fees by looking at the % they were cut when you do not know how much they were in the first place.
    In the private sector the legal services market is very competitive. You can get (and most clients now seek) an estimate or agree a set fee in advance - however each deal is separate for the obvious reason that every piece of work is different. The same applies in most self-employed trades.

    As of the State, in its dealings with the Bar it has traditionally paid below the market rate for its legal services. It can do that because of its huge power in the market for legal services.

    It is now using that muscle like never before to drive down the amount it is prepared to pay for those services. The supplier has no choice and cannot bargain. S/he can like it or lump it.

    Most State work is in the nature of piecework: i.e. it pays for a service, not by the hour/per day. It does not care if you spend 10 hours or 1 hour on something: it pays for the finished product. Experience of other jurisdictions shows that an hourly billing system (which Mr. Shatter appears to be keen on) drives fees up. The State thus benefits by paying for work done and not hours recorded.

    The answer is that there is no agreed scale of per hour/per day. Such a system would be illegal as contrary to Competition law. It would also be economically inefficient. The current system rewards the efficient and penalises the inefficient. There is no reward for taking longer than necessary in doing a job. Under a system of reward by the hour/day the person who takes 10 hours to do the job gets paid more.

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    nobody is saying these legal leeches should not be paid well
    but a fair wage

    here is a breakdown of legal fees in Ireland

    see this report from the EU http://ec.europa.eu/civiljustice/pub...ireland_en.pdf



    In commercial firms the Solicitors fees are charged on an hourly rate. Schedule
    Trainee
    €150 per hour
    Solicitors
    €220 per hour
    Associate
    €280 per hour
    Partner
    €360 per hour
    Senior Partner
    €450 per hour

    Small firms with 3 or 4 solicitors will charge according to the value of the claim and according to the complexities to the issues. Barrister’s fees can be broken down as follows:
    Consultation Fees
    Senior Counsel – up to €500 Junior Counsel – up to €300
    Attendance at pre- trial Motion
    Junior Counsel – up to €500
    Drafting documentation for the claim e.g. Defence
    Senior Counsel – up to €1000 Junior Counsel – up to €500
    Brief Fee
    Senior Counsel – up to €5000 Junior Counsel – 50% to 2/3 of the above
    Refresher fees (appearance in court)
    Senior Counsel – up to €1,000 per day Junior Counsel – 50% to 2/3 of the above
    Barrister’s fees will vary depending on the value of the claim. Depending on the type of claim the following other expenses are incurred by the parties to a claim:
    Witness Expenses Witness Expenses cont’d
    Stamp for Summons - €15 Viaticum – approx. €50 Travel Expenses – up to €100 Loss of Work – up to €300 Evidence by video link – up to €300
    Expert Witnesses
    Fee for Expert Report – up to €1000 Fee for attendance at court – from €300 per hour
    Court fees
    All documentation for the courts is stamped. E.g. Plenary Summons costs €110.
    VAT
    Professional Fees and services are V.A.T. at the rate of 21%

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    Your link does not work.

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