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Thread: Where are the lineage of the Lords and Ladies gone?

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    Politics.ie Member Old Irish's Avatar
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    Default Where are the lineage of the Lords and Ladies gone?

    The thought came to mind while looking at property for sale on My Home. ie (in Ireland obviously) There are alot of historical looking buildings and gate houses etc for sale and I wondered where are the ancestors of these properties? Do you think the ancestors of these properties are selling them or are they long gone from Ireland?

    I suppose it depends on the property but would anyone be able to give a general view on this passing thought? Sorry if my thread is a bit vague but hopefully you know what I mean

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    Politics.ie Member Cellach's Avatar
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    The vast majority are long gone I believe. The Fitzgeralds for example lost Carton due to the last Earl's unfortunate tendency to make large foolish bets. Quite a lot of the ascendency left Ireland in the 1920s, obviously under the belief (probably justified) that the new state would be a somewhat cold place for them. Quite a few did hang around though, the most obvious being The Mountcharles and the Knight of Glin. Aristocratic homes were very expensive to upkeep and as is often the case, some large estates would have moved into the hands of the nouveau riche once the previous aristocratic owners found the lands to be no longer economically viable.

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    Politics.ie Member Old Irish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cellach View Post
    The vast majority are long gone I believe. The Fitzgeralds for example lost Carton due to the last Earl's unfortunate tendency to make large foolish bets. Quite a lot of the ascendency left Ireland in the 1920s, obviously under the belief (probably justified) that the new state would be a somewhat cold place for them. Quite a few did hang around though, the most obvious being The Mountcharles and the Knight of Glin. Aristocratic homes were very expensive to upkeep and as is often the case, some large estates would have moved into the hands of the nouveau riche once the previous aristocratic owners found the lands to be no longer economically viable.
    Yeah its interesting. I'd love to hear from a decendant of one of these estates. I remember visiting Altamont Gardens a few year ago and being struck by its beauty and wanting to know its history.

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    Politics.ie Member Cellach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Irish View Post
    Yeah its interesting. I'd love to hear from a decendant of one of these estates. I remember visiting Altamont Gardens a few year ago and being struck by its beauty and wanting to know its history.
    Many of the estates were incredibly beautiful. The aristocratic classes in the days of yore could be fabulously wealthy due to their ownership of the land and the resulting rents. It can be quite easy to have a fabulous home when you are incredibly rich and pay the staff buttons. That is not an entirely fair picture though. Some aristocrats were progressive and believed in improving the lives of their tenants, others less so. It's interesting to remember as well that most of the 'absentee' landlords made very little of the estates, with the lion's share of the rent going to the estate manager, a middleman who in some cases were ethnically Gaelic Catholics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Irish View Post
    The thought came to mind while looking at property for sale on My Home. ie (in Ireland obviously) There are alot of historical looking buildings and gate houses etc for sale and I wondered where are the ancestors of these properties? Do you think the ancestors of these properties are selling them or are they long gone from Ireland?

    I suppose it depends on the property but would anyone be able to give a general view on this passing thought? Sorry if my thread is a bit vague but hopefully you know what I mean
    As I understand it most of those who stayed around joined FG and generally made some other very bad investment decisions, so the chances are the properties are not now in the hands of the original owners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Irish View Post
    Yeah its interesting. I'd love to hear from a decendant of one of these estates. I remember visiting Altamont Gardens a few year ago and being struck by its beauty and wanting to know its history.
    Ballymagarvey Village home of the Osbournes



    My great, great, great Grandmother's family, the Osbourne's, used to own this pad.

    It's now hired out for high end weddings, conferences etc. The family ex communicated their daughter for running away with a peasant, a much younger stable hand, my great, great, great Grandfather. The family returned to England due to the embarrassing conduct of their offspring. The couple never married as she was a protestant and he a catholic. They lived elsewhere and had a few children. Ten years later she abandoned him and the children and returned to England to seek a reconciliation with her family. That's about as much as I know.

    Two of my cousins got married there since it started doing the weddings gig. Most of the family rented rooms for the night. It was a sort of very strange homecoming coupled with delusions of grandeur of what if's?

    It is a truly wonderful place.
    “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - Christopher Hitchens

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    Politics.ie Member firefly123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Area View Post
    Ballymagarvey Village home of the Osbournes



    My great, great, great Grandmother's family, the Osbourne's, used to own this pad.

    It's now hired out for high end weddings, conferences etc. The family ex communicated their daughter for running away with a peasant, a much younger stable hand, my great, great, great Grandfather. The family returned to England due to the embarrassing conduct of their offspring. The couple never married as she was a protestant and he a catholic. They lived elsewhere and had a few children. Ten years later she abandoned him and the children and returned to England to seek a reconciliation with her family. That's about as much as I know.

    Two of my cousins got married there since it started doing the weddings gig. Most of the family rented rooms for the night. It was a sort of very strange homecoming coupled with delusions of grandeur of what if's?

    It is a truly wonderful place.
    Attended a wedding there. Lovely place. It's weird having the run of the house though!
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    Politics.ie Member LamportsEdge's Avatar
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    I see the Knight of Glin is mentioned. One could do worse than take a look at some of the 'cultural' organisations such as An Taisce, Heritage Ireland and other quangos associated with crumbling piles and private acreage.

    Interesting links between the urban Remains of the Day with 'Kings Inn' and the swarm of landed gintry around the heritage organisations.

    There was a proposal some years back, backed by these organisations, to have the state pay for the upkeep of some of these mansions. Only problem was that there was no proposal to open them for viewing to the brave citizens of this Republic.

    Nor any suggestion the landed families still living in them should have to give the Republic anything in return.

    There are some quiet corners in the Republic, particularly in and around the Irish RM style judiciary consisting of a few of the ascendancy on imaginary horseback and some obsequious Fine Gael style-natives looking bashfully to see which fork they should use who quietly manage such areas as estates in probate without wills, The Kings Inn Four Courts Bar & Grill Dining Rooms and various scions of the Remains of the Day hidden away in corners of the Four Green Fields.

    And the arselicking of them from both Fianna Fail and Fine Gael is colonially sickening.
    Whenever understanding exists, accepting or rejecting is unnecessary. (Fundamentals of a Gnostic Education).

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    Politics.ie Member statsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Irish View Post
    The thought came to mind while looking at property for sale on My Home. ie (in Ireland obviously) There are alot of historical looking buildings and gate houses etc for sale and I wondered where are the ancestors of these properties? Do you think the ancestors of these properties are selling them or are they long gone from Ireland?

    I suppose it depends on the property but would anyone be able to give a general view on this passing thought? Sorry if my thread is a bit vague but hopefully you know what I mean

    I'd imagine the ancestors are long since dead. The descendants, where they exist, often emigrated. Africa and Canada were popular destinations. But a lot of families have simply died out. What's interesting is how many of the old Big Houses became convents.
    Put a thief among honest men and they will eventually relieve him of his watch. Flann O'Brien

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    Politics.ie Member Hewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Irish View Post
    Yeah its interesting. I'd love to hear from a decendant of one of these estates. I remember visiting Altamont Gardens a few year ago and being struck by its beauty and wanting to know its history.
    My mother's side of the family is directly descended from Lord Edward Fitzgerald, but the trappings were long gone by the time my mother came into the world. My wife and I have a few heirlooms that were left to me and were part, so I'm told, of the contents of Frescati House, where Fitzgerald spent much of his childhood.
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