Follow @PoliticsIE
 
 
 
Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 41

Thread: Is Ireland really a kleptocracy?

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Member Disillusioned democrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    15,284
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Is Ireland really a kleptocracy?

    Kleptocracy, alternatively cleptocracy or kleptarchy, (from Greek: κλέπτης - kleptēs, "thief"[1] and κράτος - kratos, "power, rule",[2] hence "rule by thieves") is a form of political and government corruption where the government exists to increase the personal wealth and political power of its officials and the ruling class at the expense of the wider population, often without pretense of honest service. This type of government corruption is often achieved by the embezzlement of state funds.

    (Thanks to Wikipedia)

    Over the past years posting on p.ie I've seen the term kleptocracy used quite a few times but really never paid attention to it. In recent months, however, as the government have been more barefaced in imposing cuts on services and it's outgoings it has continued to borrow 13bn this year to maintain its income.

    Last evening I realised that the government earns more from my work than I do - 10% more - as it takes 55% of the cost of employing me (albeit including employers PRSI), and from the remaining 45% I pay VAT, DIRT, Duty, Excise, VRT, Household Charge and probably a few more I can't recall. PS posters immediately rallied to discredit my calculation, simply because employers PRSI isn't a tax I pay, but deliberately missed the point.

    I guess I'm just positing that maybe the government isn't as incompetent as we've assumed they are, but maybe this is a genuine case of a kleptocracy where the people of the country are actually and deliberately being fleeced to serve the "inner circle" of politicians, senior civil servants and anyone they allow into their tents.
    The more things change....

  2. #2
    Politics.ie Member olli rehn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    en garde
    Posts
    8,450
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Yes !

  3. #3
    Politics.ie Member Rural's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    In the kitchen
    Posts
    27,862
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    Default

    Yes, indeed they are that word what you said, I can think of a few other words too, beginning with the word "shower ........".
    Disclosures Tribunal - #OnlyForTheTape...

  4. #4
    Politics.ie Member Analyzer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Northern Ireland - without forgiveness, there is dysfunctionality.
    Posts
    46,117
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Disillusioned democrat View Post
    Kleptocracy, alternatively cleptocracy or kleptarchy, (from Greek: κλέπτης - kleptēs, "thief"[1] and κράτος - kratos, "power, rule",[2] hence "rule by thieves") is a form of political and government corruption where the government exists to increase the personal wealth and political power of its officials and the ruling class at the expense of the wider population, often without pretense of honest service. This type of government corruption is often achieved by the embezzlement of state funds.

    (Thanks to Wikipedia)

    Over the past years posting on p.ie I've seen the term kleptocracy used quite a few times but really never paid attention to it. In recent months, however, as the government have been more barefaced in imposing cuts on services and it's outgoings it has continued to borrow 13bn this year to maintain its income.

    Last evening I realised that the government earns more from my work than I do - 10% more - as it takes 55% of the cost of employing me (albeit including employers PRSI), and from the remaining 45% I pay VAT, DIRT, Duty, Excise, VRT, Household Charge and probably a few more I can't recall. PS posters immediately rallied to discredit my calculation, simply because employers PRSI isn't a tax I pay, but deliberately missed the point.

    I guess I'm just positing that maybe the government isn't as incompetent as we've assumed they are, but maybe this is a genuine case of a kleptocracy where the people of the country are actually and deliberately being fleeced to serve the "inner circle" of politicians, senior civil servants and anyone they allow into their tents.
    +1.

    Let's not forget Irish defamation Law, and how long it took the Irish media to discuss/investigate CJH and the maFFia.
    Coveney's ambition is the be Ireland's next EU Commissar and Ireland will pay a price as he builds his CV to position himself sufficiently loyal to the nEU empire.

  5. #5
    Politics.ie Member Rural's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    In the kitchen
    Posts
    27,862
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
    +1.

    Let's not forget Irish defamation Law, and how long it took the Irish media to discuss/investigate CJH and the maFFia.
    Still waiting for the results of the Mahon Report, which was supposed to be out three years ago.
    Disclosures Tribunal - #OnlyForTheTape...

  6. #6
    Politics.ie Member ruserious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    In the Bunker...Returning Fire!
    Posts
    29,323
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Disillusioned democrat View Post
    Kleptocracy, alternatively cleptocracy or kleptarchy, (from Greek: κλέπτης - kleptēs, "thief"[1] and κράτος - kratos, "power, rule",[2] hence "rule by thieves") is a form of political and government corruption where the government exists to increase the personal wealth and political power of its officials and the ruling class at the expense of the wider population, often without pretense of honest service. This type of government corruption is often achieved by the embezzlement of state funds.

    (Thanks to Wikipedia)

    Over the past years posting on p.ie I've seen the term kleptocracy used quite a few times but really never paid attention to it. In recent months, however, as the government have been more barefaced in imposing cuts on services and it's outgoings it has continued to borrow €13bn this year to maintain its income.

    Last evening I realised that the government earns more from my work than I do - 10% more - as it takes 55% of the cost of employing me (albeit including employers PRSI), and from the remaining 45% I pay VAT, DIRT, Duty, Excise, VRT, Household Charge and probably a few more I can't recall. PS posters immediately rallied to discredit my calculation, simply because employers PRSI isn't a tax I pay, but deliberately missed the point.

    I guess I'm just positing that maybe the government isn't as incompetent as we've assumed they are, but maybe this is a genuine case of a kleptocracy where the people of the country are actually and deliberately being fleeced to serve the "inner circle" of politicians, senior civil servants and anyone they allow into their tents.
    The Irish trait of subserviance certainly is challened into government. I'm not sure that is kleptocracy though...
    Boycott the "Irish" Sun rag.

  7. #7
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,416
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Look at the levels of taxes paid.
    Look at levels of money borrowed to top up government expenditure.

    Then review the quality and breadth of public service you and your community receive eg health system, cuts to policing, education standards (eg the low number who can speak Irish after 14 years and a foreign language after 6) etc

    Then look at amount on public pay and pensions (including politicians and senior civil servants), quangos (and who's on them), consultants, legal bills to big six solicitors, amount of discretionary funding diverted to politicians local patches, export credit insurance, per job return of IDA grants, etc etc

    Kleptocracy might be a bit far, but democratic/accountability deficit might be more accurate.

  8. #8
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    26,299
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Disillusioned democrat View Post
    Kleptocracy, alternatively cleptocracy or kleptarchy, (from Greek: κλέπτης - kleptēs, "thief"[1] and κράτος - kratos, "power, rule",[2] hence "rule by thieves") is a form of political and government corruption where the government exists to increase the personal wealth and political power of its officials and the ruling class at the expense of the wider population, often without pretense of honest service. This type of government corruption is often achieved by the embezzlement of state funds.

    (Thanks to Wikipedia)

    Over the past years posting on p.ie I've seen the term kleptocracy used quite a few times but really never paid attention to it. In recent months, however, as the government have been more barefaced in imposing cuts on services and it's outgoings it has continued to borrow 13bn this year to maintain its income.

    Last evening I realised that the government earns more from my work than I do - 10% more - as it takes 55% of the cost of employing me (albeit including employers PRSI), and from the remaining 45% I pay VAT, DIRT, Duty, Excise, VRT, Household Charge and probably a few more I can't recall. PS posters immediately rallied to discredit my calculation, simply because employers PRSI isn't a tax I pay, but deliberately missed the point.

    I guess I'm just positing that maybe the government isn't as incompetent as we've assumed they are, but maybe this is a genuine case of a kleptocracy where the people of the country are actually and deliberately being fleeced to serve the "inner circle" of politicians, senior civil servants and anyone they allow into their tents.
    An excellent OP, one correction though, you said the govt "earns" more of your money than you do, that's untrue, they "earn" nothing, "steal" is what they do,

    And to answer the question,

    Well, does Mr Ed sh1t himself when he sees Larry Goodman coming?


  9. #9
    Politics.ie Member Rural's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    In the kitchen
    Posts
    27,862
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ribeye View Post
    An excellent OP, one correction though, you said the govt "earns" more of your money than you do, that's untrue, they "earn" nothing, "steal" is what they do,

    And to answer the question,

    Well, does Mr Ed sh1t himself when he sees Larry Goodman coming?

    Mr. Ed is in a unique position for a horse, he can tell Larry to eff off!!
    Disclosures Tribunal - #OnlyForTheTape...

  10. #10
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    26,299
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    An interesting way of looking at it is,

    You will be working until about the end of July before you are allowed to keep any of your earnings!

    and for fckn what exactly?

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •