Follow @PoliticsIE
 
 
 
Page 1 of 8 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 76

Thread: A United Ireland Referendum: What if we vote no?

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    440
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default A United Ireland Referendum: What if we vote no?

    Border Poll: What if we vote no?

    So all the talk has been about what a United Ireland will look like if a ‘Yes’ vote is achieved at a referendum. That's a good thing.

    What if we vote no? A very real prospect. A very very real prospect, more real than Sinn Fein can imagine or dare to let on.

    I believe in a United Ireland, absolutely, I’m 100% for it. I don’t believe a threat of violence from anyone should deter democracy from taking place.

    But, what if we vote against a United Ireland?

    Will nationalists be subject to loyalist/unionist triumphalism for another seven years at least until we can next hold a referendum? Or worse for another generation or more?

    Will Stormont still be a divided Assembly of tosspots talking about but doing nothing for equality? Will we still have an over dominant public sector and no jobs or prospects for young graduates, whilst in Dublin Google is cherry picking for top modern jobs?

    Will we still have parades? Will we still have ‘peace’ walls? Will we still have loyalist paramilitary groups calling for an end to violence? No Irish language Act? Religious and cultural discrimination? Will we still have a large silent minority afraid to speak up? Will every election be dominated by sectarian viewpoints with conversation on economic and social policy stuck into party manifestos as an afterthought?

    Will loyalists still be shocked that we're in a peace process? 15 years and the DUP still hasn't told them.

    Unionists, please make your case for the Union.

  2. #2
    Politics.ie Member Cruimh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    County Londonderry
    Posts
    35,461
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)

    Default

    What if it is a draw?

  3. #3
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    440
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Then we call a recount and Rodney Connor will lose by a handful of votes...

  4. #4
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    440
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    I accept there are lots of questions by the way. But I think it's a serious point. What we be would be voting for?

    More of the same? Because that hasn't worked.

  5. #5
    Castle Ray
    Guest

    Default

    The referendum would be to stay in the UK with the present political arrangements. These are far from perfect but the referendum in question would not be to improve them it would be to stay or to leave them and enter the unknown with very real adverse effects to the wellbeing of the vast majority of people not only in NI but Eire also.

  6. #6
    Castle Ray
    Guest

    Default

    Btw, who are you referring to when you say the "large silent minority afraid to speak up"?

    Also, if there's peace what process is there remaining? Is the war not over? All sides say it is bar the lunatic fringe. The settlement has been made and imbedded. Most of the things you question aren't effected by a referendum vote either way.

  7. #7
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    440
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    What is the incentive for staying with the current circumstances?

    The UK is a great country, but the Northern Irish part is far from the type of UK in the South-East of England. If a flag was lowered in a civil and sensible town in England, the only people who might make a small hiccup of trouble would be the EDL or the BNP. Here it is the standard we have come to expect unfortunately.

    You mention that there would be adverse effects to the wellbeing of the vast majority in Ireland, what is the evidence of that to date and if so how would it be any different to the vast majority of us currently facing hardship whilst part of the island is being administered by the British and the other part by the Germans? Furthermore, look at the violence on the streets every year in NI - they are people whose wellbeing is not a priority of the Westminster government.

    Any vote on a United Ireland would be a vote for whether or not we want partition to remain. It is a rethink of NI as a constituent nation of the UK. In doing this, we should ask ourselves if it has worked up until now and if not, what we can do about it if (a) we stay in the UK and (b) if we join the Irish Republic.

    If those who are pro-UI are making the case for improvements in a United Ireland, then it is not acceptable for those who are pro-UK to sit back and think that the status-quo is good enough nearly 100 years after they argued that we'd be better off in the UK.
    Last edited by cmca1; 21st January 2013 at 05:15 AM.

  8. #8
    Politics.ie Member Cruimh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    County Londonderry
    Posts
    35,461
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)

    Default

    A very strange OP indeed Ray

    Will we still have ‘peace’ walls?
    The naivety of this question - does anybody really think that a Vote leading to unification and poof! The 'peace' walls would would go and the people on either side of them would gather round, hold hands and sing Kumbaya?

  9. #9
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    440
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle Ray View Post
    Btw, who are you referring to when you say the "large silent minority afraid to speak up"?

    Also, if there's peace what process is there remaining? Is the war not over? All sides say it is bar the lunatic fringe. The settlement has been made and imbedded. Most of the things you question aren't effected by a referendum vote either way.
    The vast majority of people right now are not entrenched by the level of bigotry that we've seen from so called republicans and loyalists. Most are right-thinking, reasonable who do not care about the colour of the flag. Yet amidst all this violence, they are voiceless whilst a few hundred thugs bring our lives to a standstill, attack our politicians and police and create visible economic hardship businesses, employers and employees.

    A process of moving on and reconciling is what exists. Peace exists, yet we still go to our own schools, we still live in our own towns, we don't have parties which stand on the basis of economic and social policy, we dont have accountability of our elected politicians, some people still don't there is peace.


    Those who part-take in violence also have one thing in common - they don't think there is peace, yet they reflect a minority view and believe they can uphold the rest of our society in the way they have the last few weeks.

    In all of this and all I have mentioned in the OP, what are unionists doing to convince those of a pro-UI stance or other view, that Northern Ireland is working?

  10. #10
    Castle Ray
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cmca1 View Post
    What is the incentive for staying with the current circumstances?

    The UK is a great country, but the Northern Irish part is far from the UK of the South-East of England. If a flag was lowered in a civil and sensible town in England, the only people who might make a small hiccup of trouble would be the EDL or the BNP. Here it is the standard we have come to expect unfortunately.

    You mention that there would be adverse effects to the wellbeing of the vast majority in Ireland, what is the evidence of that to date and if so how would it be any different to the vast majority of us currently facing hardship whilst part of the island is being administered by the British and the other part by the Germans? Furthermore, look at the violence on the streets every year in NI - they are people whose wellbeing is not a priority of the Westminster government.

    Any vote on a United Ireland would be a vote for whether or not we want partition to remain. It is a rethink of NI as a constituent nation of the UK. In doing this, we should ask ourselves if it has worked up until now and if not, what we can do about it if (a) we stay in the UK and (b) if we join the Irish Republic.

    If those who are pro-UI are making the case for improvements in a United Ireland, then it is not acceptable for those who are pro-UK to sit back and think that the status-quo is good enough nearly 100 years after they argued that we'd be better off in the UK.
    There are plenty of incentives to remain in the UK. The deficit in NI would cripple Eire and any new state would be instantly bankrupt. But I'm sure you know this. The problem is that improvements are hard to make due to current tribal parties who dominate refusing to do so. Leaving the UK does not solve that.

Page 1 of 8 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •