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Thread: Third level institutions: Hea report published today

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    Default Third level institutions: Hea report published today

    Higher Education Authority | Completing the Landscape Process for Irish Higher Education



    Completing the Landscape Process for Irish Higher Education
    “Les cons, ça ose tout, c’est même à ça qu’on les reconnaît.”

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    Politics.ie Member Vega1447's Avatar
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    What do you think yourself?
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    My reaction is to welcome the direction in which these changes are heading, i.e. some rationalisation, some bringing together of compatible departments and colleges and the possible end of duplication and unnecessary managerial layers which exist in many colleges because of their ''independence'' and autonomy.
    “Les cons, ça ose tout, c’est même à ça qu’on les reconnaît.”

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    Politics.ie Member darkknight's Avatar
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    It would be interesting to study the role of the HEA in facilitating the reckless proliferation of unsustainable 3rd level institutions in recent decades.

    The number of universities in Ireland (7) is roughly on par, proportionate to population, with the the UK (115).

    But the number of non-university institutes and colleges (32 in Ireland)) is wildly out of kilter (165 in UK).

    The UK would need approximately 480 non-university institutes /colleges to match the Irish level!

    In many cases, the population necessary to sustain a small local 3rd level institution simply didn't, and doesn't, exist.

    But the bill for keeping these places in operation (including very large salaries for senior academics and administrators) is enormous.

    It was always crazy and reckless, driven more by parish pump politics than by sound academic planning.

    The proposed mergers make sense, but are still not sufficiently drastic, especially at a time when scarce financial resources are urgently needed elsewhere in our education system.

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    Politics.ie Member sauntersplash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkknight View Post
    It would be interesting to study the role of the HEA in facilitating the reckless proliferation of unsustainable 3rd level institutions in recent decades.

    The number of universities in Ireland (7) is roughly on par, proportionate to population, with the the UK (115).

    But the number of non-university institutes and colleges (32 in Ireland)) is wildly out of kilter (165 in UK).

    The UK would need approximately 480 non-university institutes /colleges to match the Irish level!

    In many cases, the population necessary to sustain a small local 3rd level institution simply didn't, and doesn't, exist.

    But the bill for keeping these places in operation (including very large salaries for senior academics and administrators) is enormous.

    It was always crazy and reckless, driven more by parish pump politics than by sound academic planning.

    The proposed mergers make sense, but are still not sufficiently drastic, especially at a time when scarce financial resources are urgently needed elsewhere in our education system.
    Absolutely.

    A pet hate of mine is staff at institutes of technology, who engage in no research, supervise no research, publish no papers, attend no conferences, have no PhD, yet are paid as third level "lecturers". These institutes are largely staffed by glorified secondary school teachers collecting supersized paycheques for five hours teaching a week. It's a disgrace.
    "No." - Rosa Parks

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    Politics.ie Member wombat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauntersplash View Post
    Absolutely.

    A pet hate of mine is staff at institutes of technology, who engage in no research, supervise no research, publish no papers, attend no conferences, have no PhD, yet are paid as third level "lecturers". These institutes are largely staffed by glorified secondary school teachers collecting supersized paycheques for five hours teaching a week. It's a disgrace.
    I don't know why you had to insult secondary teachers. The RTCs when originally set up were intended to fill the technologist gap but local politicians encouraged by snobbish parents insisted that they become ITs so little Johnny could get a degree in basket weaving. They have degenerated into 5th rate universities rather than filling a real need by providing industry ready graduates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    I don't know why you had to insult secondary teachers. The RTCs when originally set up were intended to fill the technologist gap but local politicians encouraged by snobbish parents insisted that they become ITs so little Johnny could get a degree in basket weaving. They have degenerated into 5th rate universities rather than filling a real need by providing industry ready graduates.

    So what will happen to 'little johnny' if these places are closed down?? Will the remaining institutes be able to increase their numbers?

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    Politics.ie Member Amnesiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by realistic1 View Post
    So what will happen to 'little johnny' if these places are closed down?? Will the remaining institutes be able to increase their numbers?
    Most likely, but he'll have to travel further away from his mammy to do it. I would be surprised if the government actually made any bold move in this area. A reduction is likely, but nothing close to what's necessary.

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    Politics.ie Member wombat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by realistic1 View Post
    So what will happen to 'little johnny' if these places are closed down?? Will the remaining institutes be able to increase their numbers?
    He may have to study a subject which is taught at a higher level but which will be of real value when he qualifies. My reading is that they plan mergers rather than closures with colleges teaching different courses rather than duplication. It sounds like a good idea but as always, the difficulty will be in the implementation.

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    Reads like another HSE situation. pretend mergers, no real reform. Teacher training needs 2 schools only, non religious, attached to TCD or UCD and Cork University.
    The amount of waste in regional IT's is astounding. Incompetent lecturers being paid huge money for nothing. Degrees not worth anything. Unless heads are banged together, this will be another fudge.

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