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Thread: Monarchy and Democracy

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    Politics.ie Member Sensible Head's Avatar
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    Default Monarchy and Democracy

    Secret papers show extent of senior royals' veto over bills | UK news | The Guardian

    The Guardian has been pursuing FOI requests relating to meetings/letters from the royal family to Ministers for a while.

    The above article talks about how the royal family are asked for their consent in the cases where proposed laws affect them. Now the UK legal/parliament systems is set up with nominally the power residing with the crown and exercised by parliament, hence the crown prosecution service for example and the fact that you can't bring the Crown to court.

    Now as a republican in the full meaning of the word the idea that someone has power due to birth is of course anathema, but looking at the list of bills it does look like just a.n.other vested interest looking out for themselves. Why would Prince Charles care about gambling?

    This is the worst of it in my opinion.

    "In the pamphlet, the Parliamentary Counsel warns civil servants that if consent is not forthcoming there is a risk "a major plank of the bill must be removed"."

    Now doubt the Guardian will be pursuing more.

    <Mod> This thread has been merged with "UK Democracy may not be all that it seems". </Mod>
    Last edited by stringjack; 15th July 2013 at 11:10 AM. Reason: Merged thread.
    Common Sense, the least common of all the senses.

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    Politics.ie Member parentheses's Avatar
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    It seems fair to question to what extent Britian is a real democracy given the considerable vetoes which are still enjoyed by the Royal family over Brtish legislation.

    It appears that the UK "Mother of Parliaments" cannot legislate without the agremment of the British monarch.

    Governmental papers prepared by Cabinet Office lawyers showed that overall at least 39 bills have been subject to the most senior royals’ little-known power to approve or reject new laws.
    "At any stage this issue could come up and surprise us and we could find parliament is less powerful than we thought it was."
    PressTV - Royal family enjoys veto power in all British govt. affairs

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    It's truly absurd that these people are given any credence whatsoever.

    A few years ago the British public were jumping up and down about MP expenses and second homes and all kinds of gravy train fiddling.

    Yet this ghastly family get a free ride.

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    Politics.ie Member Sensible Head's Avatar
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    Here's an update today, looks like the Government is abusing the Crown's power

    Ministers accused of exploiting royal veto to block embarrassing legislation | UK news | The Guardian

    Of course if that power didn't exist ....
    Common Sense, the least common of all the senses.

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    Politics.ie Member euryalus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensible Head View Post
    You mean like Oliver Cromwell and "Freeborn John" Lilburne, as opposed to Beardy Adams?
    "Cast a cold eye ......."

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    i have a philosphical problem with the concept of Monarchy, but to be strictly fair, the Grinuand hasn't actually come up with an occasion where the Royals have asked for a bill to be ammeded...

    so if they always get asked, and never say no - and if they did say no, the change would be reflected in the legislation for all to see - is there really a problem?

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    Politics.ie Member McTell's Avatar
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    Didn't they do well, all the same, penniless immigrants from germany and not able to speak the language of the adopted country? The ultimate soft sell.
    McTell tCurrently, I am missing certain information. That has been requested and will be added as soon as it is available available availableavailable

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    Politics.ie Member james5001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensible Head View Post
    Here's an update today, looks like the Government is abusing the Crown's power

    Ministers accused of exploiting royal veto to block embarrassing legislation | UK news | The Guardian

    Of course if that power didn't exist ....
    They're the political equivalent of coronation street.
    The world is a very puzzling place. If you're not willing to be puzzled, you just become a replica of someone else's mind.

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    Default UK Democracy may not be all that it seems

    As the attached tweet and related article demonstrate, the Guardian have unearthed that the monarchy in the UK have had an impact of at least 39 parliamentary billsto the point of actually blocking one.

    @RepublicStaff: RT @polblonde: Secret papers show extent of senior royals' veto over bills Secret papers show extent of senior royals' veto over bills | UK news | The Guardian << useful reminder, Charles has leverage.

    It does eem rather odd that in a country that would consistently declare itself to be a great democracy that here we still have an unelected individual or perhaps even group of individiuals who are born or married into royalty but still have the ability to effect the day to day lives of that country. That seems slightly bizarre to me. I recall during debates about the monarchy that one of the reasons put forward by pro monarchists was that any political power the monarchy had was superficial and a token gesture. This article seems to put that to bed once and for all.

    What possible great knowledge or wisdom does the royal family have that the elected MPs could not bring to the table.

    I wonder will it recativate the monarchy discussion in the UK?
    #3amigos

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    Politics.ie Member Eire1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northtipp View Post
    As the attached tweet and related article demonstrate, the Guardian have unearthed that the monarchy in the UK have had an impact of at least 39 parliamentary billsto the point of actually blocking one.

    @RepublicStaff: RT @polblonde: Secret papers show extent of senior royals' veto over bills Secret papers show extent of senior royals' veto over bills | UK news | The Guardian << useful reminder, Charles has leverage.

    It does eem rather odd that in a country that would consistently declare itself to be a great democracy that here we still have an unelected individual or perhaps even group of individiuals who are born or married into royalty but still have the ability to effect the day to day lives of that country. That seems slightly bizarre to me. I recall during debates about the monarchy that one of the reasons put forward by pro monarchists was that any political power the monarchy had was superficial and a token gesture. This article seems to put that to bed once and for all.

    What possible great knowledge or wisdom does the royal family have that the elected MPs could not bring to the table.

    I wonder will it recativate the monarchy discussion in the UK?
    It's all about protecting the establishment, why do you think the vast majority of the new year and Queens Birthday gongs go to people of influence in business and the media?

    They call the Royal family "the firm" and that's what they show on TV.

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