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Thread: Was Ireland A Relatively Liberal Country Before The Famine?

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    Politics.ie Member General Urko's Avatar
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    Default Was Ireland A Relatively Liberal Country Before The Famine?

    I have no evidence to suggest that it was except maybe the size of the population. Is it possible that all changed utterly post famine, especially for those who survived and stayed in terms of how conservative a society we became? I would imagine joining religious orders became a much more viable career option as very few if any of them (the Catholic ones) died during the famine! Also we would hardly have had the rate of unmarried for a life time adults which we eventually did, highest in the world at one stage! And of course the Magdelyne concentration camps had yet to come into their own!
    I throw it open to the house?

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    Ireland was a relatively liberal country after it.

    If protecting human rights, property rights and democracy are examples of being liberal, then few if any countries in Europe could hold a torch to us during the 20th century.

    The Irish state's protection and treatment of religious minorites was also very commendable.

    yes, the church had too much power. However, Ireland is certainly not the only country where sexual abuse on a large happened. The fact that we have had many enquiries makes our problems very visible.

    There's alot of whinging about how backward ireland was and is, but very little acknowledgment of the good.
    "...Money exists not by nature but by law." Aristotle (Ethics, 1133)

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    Politics.ie Member ruserious's Avatar
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    The Catholic Church de-liberalised the place.
    Boycott the "Irish" Sun rag.

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    I've never studied history beyond primary school, but wasn't the pre famine era the time of Catholic Emancipation ? This, I would say, probably tightened the hand of the church amongst it's people as it would have been associated with nationalism.
    The real damage was done in the years immediately after independence when the politicians cowered before Maynooth and the country was too war weary to resist.

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    Why would the famine make Ireland less liberal?

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    You'll be looking for Emmet Larkin's The Devotional Revolution and KH Connell's Irish Peasant Society, but I think both have been critiqued/revised (delete to taste) extensively sunce the early 70's.

    Not at computer at moment but if you're interested I'll get you full refs. later.

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    Politics.ie Member Catalpast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kensington View Post
    Ireland was a relatively liberal country after it.

    If protecting human rights, property rights and democracy are examples of being liberal, then few if any countries in Europe could hold a torch to us during the 20th century.

    The Irish state's protection and treatment of religious minorites was also very commendable.

    yes, the church had too much power. However, Ireland is certainly not the only country where sexual abuse on a large happened. The fact that we have had many enquiries makes our problems very visible.

    There's alot of whinging about how backward ireland, but very little acknowledgment of the good.
    Very Good Post

    Ireland was not a particularly conservative society by Global standards

    However we tend to compare ourselves to other societies that our emigrants went to

    In large part these were more socially liberal in their urban areas (where most Irish emigrants ended up) and thus that's where people took their comparisons from...

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    Politics.ie Member firefly123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcolebrooke View Post
    Why would the famine make Ireland less liberal?
    Spuds are hippy food?
    Life is hard
    That's why no-one survives

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    Politics.ie Member General Urko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcolebrooke View Post
    Why would the famine make Ireland less liberal?
    Fear for one thing and a view that it might be retribution from God! The vast majority of those left behind are illiterate peasants!

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    Politics.ie Member Telemachus's Avatar
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    Posts #2 and #3 are nonsense. It was a traditional society so would have been deeply illiberal by the standards of modern post 60s social liberalism.

    Sorry.

    I think your OP is messy also. You should talk about what exactly you mean in more clarity and use paragraphs.
    ..the Irish nation can become other than white, by privileging the voices of the racialised and subverting state immigration but also integration policies. Ronit Lentin

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