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Thread: Should we arm Christian militias in Egypt and Syria?

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    Politics.ie Member Eric Cartman's Avatar
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    Default Should we arm Christian militias in Egypt and Syria?

    Here's an article from The Guardian highlighting Christian persecution in the Middle East. Considering that Middle Eastern Christians are approximately 10% of the population (considerably greater in both absolute and relative terms than that of Muslims in the West), it is odd that their very real persecution is woefully underreported, in contrast to imagined Muslim grievances such as Nativity scenes in Catholic Hospitals etc.

    In the Middle East, the Arab spring has given way to a Christian winter | Rupert Shortt | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

    Why is all this so under-reported? This answer is simple: Christians rank low in an unacknowledged hierarchy of victimhood. Young Christians in the west don't become radicalised in support of their fellow believers, and persecuted Christians rarely respond with terrorist violence. This also tends to render their plight less newsworthy in the media eyes.
    The only time that Christians in the Middle East were in any way acknowledged by the liberal Western media was in the mid 1970s-1990 and the vicious Lebanese Civil War, in which the Christian militias (The Lebanese Front, comprised of the Phalanx Al Kataeb, Guardians of the Cedars, Tiger Milita, Lebanese Forces etc.) waged war against vaguely Arab left nationalists in the L.N.M. and P.L.O.

    The Christian Phalangist militia slaughtered hundreds to thousands of Palestinian refugees at Sabra and Shatilla camps in 1982, widely reported by Robert Fisk. (Not widely known is a massacre of almost Christians, the Damour massacre).

    Even though the Christians ultimately lost the conflict, they nevertheless succeeded in the subsequent peace talks to reserving half the parliamentary seats (and the Presidency) for Christians, despite numbering 35% of the population at best. War criminals like Elie Hobeika, Samir Geagea and Bachir Gemayel served as government ministers.

    Violence works.

    How have Egyptian and Syrian Christians fared? Not great.

    Persecution of Christian Copts in Egypt on Rise as Muslim Brotherhood Consolidates Power - International - Catholic Online
    Home

    2010'sApril/May 2010 In Marsa Matrouh, a mob of 3,000 Muslims attacked the city's Coptic Christian population, with 400 Copts having to barricade themselves in their church while the mob destroyed 18 homes, 23 shops and 16 cars.

    January 1, 2011 (On New Year's Eve)
    Main article: 2011 Alexandria bombing
    A car bomb exploded in front of an Alexandria Coptic Orthodox Church killing at least 21 and injuring at least 79. The incident happened a few minutes after midnight as Christians were leaving a New Year's Eve Church service. It has been later thought that the previous corrupt minister of interior was behind the attacks in an attempt to cause strife between the Egyptian people.

    January 11, 2011 A mentally deranged member of the police force opened fire in a train in Samalout station in Minya province resulting in the death of a 71-year old man and injury of 5 others.

    March 5, 2011 A church was set on fire in Sole, Egypt by a group of Muslim men angry that a Muslim woman was romantically involved with a Christian man. Many Christian residents of Sole fled the village, with the remainder "living in fear". Large groups of Copts then proceeded to hold major protests stopping traffic for hours in vital areas of Cairo.

    April 2011 After the death of two Muslims on April 18, sectarian violence broke out in the southern Egyptian town of Abu Qurqas El Balad, in Minya Governorate, 260 km south of Cairo.One Christian Copt was killed, an old woman was thrown out of her second floor balcony and ten Copts were hospitalized. Coptic homes, shops, businesses, fields and livestock were plundered and torched. Minyaa is well known for its ancient customs of tribal loyalty if a member of a clan kills someone from another clan or family, the victim's family feel obliged to avenge their relative's death.
    The government has been trying to prevent such tribal behaviour. Rumors spread throughout Abu Qurqas of many strangers and of trucks loaded with weapons coming into the village to carry out the threats during the Easter week. The terrorized Christian villagers sent pleas everywhere, asking for protection, even to Coptic groups in Europe and the U.S.

    May 7, 2011 A dispute started over claims that several women who converted to Islam had been abducted by the church and was being held against her will in St. Mary Church of Imbaba, Giza, ended in violent clashes that left 15 dead, among whom were Muslims and Christians, and roughly 55 injured. Eyewitnesses confirmed the church was burnt by thugs [not Salafis] who are not from the neighborhood, as confirmed by the committee of the National Council for Human Rights (NCHR). Copts converting to Islam are usually advised by the police to take out restraining orders against their families as the Coptic community does not tolerate converts to Islam. These incidents have fueled strife and problems between Copts and Muslims as in the famous case of Camelia.

    May 2011 Copts in Maspero, Cairo are attacked during protests one dies.
    May 18, 2011 The Coptic Church obtained a permission in January to turn a garment factory bought by the church in 2006, into a church in the neighbourhood of Ain Shams of Cairo. However, angry Muslim mobs attacked the church and scores of Copts and Muslims were arrested for the disturbance. On Sunday May 29, an Egyptian Military Court sentenced two Coptic Christians to five years in jail each for violence and for trying to turn a factory into an unlicensed church
    Christian self-defense militias have already formed in Syria, mainly to protect themselves from the Saudi-financed "Free Syrian Army" jihadi movement.

    What should Irish people do? Shouldn't we support fellow Christians against Saudi and Salafi thugs? Should we supply them with arms and money?

    Should the Christians take up arms to protect themselves against random acts of Muslim violence and the slow, irrevocable decline in numbers due to persecution? Or should they cut and run?

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    Would be silly arming both Islamic fundamentalists and Christian groups. Clearly those in the west don't care about Christians in the area and will follow whatever agenda they have arming the various Jihad groups, even if it means the death of Christians.

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    Politics.ie Member Ren84's Avatar
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    Why not? It worked so well in Afghanistan. BTW, did anyone do an audit of all those US Stingers that were 'lost' in the 80's?

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    Politics.ie Member Kevin Parlon's Avatar
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    Cut and run. It worked in Lebanon because they were a large % of the population (84% Christian in the 1930's, 41% now). In egypt, IMO it would provide the excuse the salafists have been waiting for to commence the genocide. I can't think of a single Muslim majority country where the Christian population isn't in freefall. It's a terrible situation but we cannot expect it to change whilst society in these countries is dominated by Islamism.
    "It is amazing how many people think that they can answer an argument by attributing bad motives to those who disagree with them." - Thomas Sowell

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    Politics.ie Member Ren84's Avatar
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    Why don't the Christians of the ME start emigrating en masse to Lebanon? It worked for the Jews in Israel. Serious suggestion BTW. The Christians need somewhere they can feel safe. Lebanon, once a Christian kingdom set up by the Crusaders, would serve that purpose, with their numbers easily dwarfing the existing Muslim population there.

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    Politics.ie Member Clanrickard's Avatar
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    Yes. The west should arm them and intervene to help them. The destruction of Christianity by by the Jihadis emboldens them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Here's an article from The Guardian highlighting Christian persecution in the Middle East. Considering that Middle Eastern Christians are approximately 10% of the population (considerably greater in both absolute and relative terms than that of Muslims in the West), it is odd that their very real persecution is woefully underreported, in contrast to imagined Muslim grievances such as Nativity scenes in Catholic Hospitals etc.

    In the Middle East, the Arab spring has given way to a Christian winter | Rupert Shortt | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
    Why not arm any oppressed people who are friendly to us?


    The only time that Christians in the Middle East were in any way acknowledged by the liberal Western media was in the mid 1970s-1990 and the vicious Lebanese Civil War, in which the Christian militias (The Lebanese Front, comprised of the Phalanx Al Kataeb, Guardians of the Cedars, Tiger Milita, Lebanese Forces etc.) waged war against vaguely Arab left nationalists in the L.N.M. and P.L.O.

    The Christian Phalangist militia slaughtered hundreds to thousands of Palestinian refugees at Sabra and Shatilla camps in 1982, widely reported by Robert Fisk. (Not widely known is a massacre of almost Christians, the Damour massacre).

    Even though the Christians ultimately lost the conflict, they nevertheless succeeded in the subsequent peace talks to reserving half the parliamentary seats (and the Presidency) for Christians, despite numbering 35% of the population at best. War criminals like Elie Hobeika, Samir Geagea and Bachir Gemayel served as government ministers.

    Violence works.

    How have Egyptian and Syrian Christians fared? Not great.

    Persecution of Christian Copts in Egypt on Rise as Muslim Brotherhood Consolidates Power - International - Catholic Online
    Home



    Christian self-defense militias have already formed in Syria, mainly to protect themselves from the Saudi-financed "Free Syrian Army" jihadi movement.

    What should Irish people do? Shouldn't we support fellow Christians against Saudi and Salafi thugs? Should we supply them with arms and money?

    Should the Christians take up arms to protect themselves against random acts of Muslim violence and the slow, irrevocable decline in numbers due to persecution? Or should they cut and run?

  9. #9
    Politics.ie Member Ren84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clanrickard View Post
    Yes. The west should arm them and intervene to help them. The destruction of Christianity by by the Jihadis emboldens them.
    Nah, just have them all move to a new homeland in the ME, where they can arm themselves to the teeth and defend themselves more easily.

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    Politics.ie Member Analyzer's Avatar
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    If it ensures that the Saudis pump more light sweet crude onto the world markets, then you can expect the political establishments of highly-indebted-western-countries to give the thumbs up.

    It is all about getting suburban moms to spend more time in the shopping mall.
    Coveney's ambition is the be Ireland's next EU Commissar and Ireland will pay a price as he builds his CV to position himself sufficiently loyal to the nEU empire.

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