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Thread: What Sort of Country Would it be Today, Had We Achieved Independence in 1798?

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    Politics.ie Member ruserious's Avatar
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    Default What Sort of Country Would it be Today, Had We Achieved Independence in 1798?

    Wolfe Tone's call for a Secular Nation is possibly one of the most intriguing aspects of 'what-if' histories open to examination in relation to the modern state of Ireland.

    "To subvert the tyranny of our execrable government, to break the connection with England, the never failing source of all our political evils, and to assert the independence of my country--these were my objects. To unite the whole people of Ireland, to abolish the memory of all past dissentions, and to substitute the common name of Irishman, in the place of the denominations of Protestant, Catholic, and Dissenter--these were my means." Wolfe Tone.

    What if....Wolfe Tone had achieved independence in 1798?

    Would we have been a true republic under real republican values as espoused by Montesquieu or Locke?

    It is plausible to suggest that had we became a Republic in 1798, we would have avoided the rot caused by the Catholic Church in the 19th and 20th Century. We would probably have been a liberal nation ála Scandinavia where religion did not influence the State and the value of citizenship was held in high regard.

    But not being a big history buff, I would like to invite the board to reply to how they believe the State of Ireland would have developed had we achieved independence in 1798.

    The 'famine', the troubles, our neutrality are all aspects which can be examined.
    Boycott the "Irish" Sun rag.

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    Although it is more common for Protestants to hate Catholics than vice-versa nowadays, it was the Catholics who ruined the trust between both religions when they massacred Protestant prisoners in Wexford.

    Had they not done that, it is very possible that the ideals of the United Irishmen and the vast majority of Irish republicans could have become reality.

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    Politics.ie Member ruserious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protestant/Catholic=Irish View Post
    Although it is more common for Protestants to hate Catholics than vice-versa nowadays, it was the Catholics who ruined the trust between both religions when they massacred Protestant prisoners in Wexford.

    Had they not done that, it is very possible that the ideals of the United Irishmen and the vast majority of Irish republicans could have become reality.
    I think as a nation, we need to become familiar with the ideals of 1798 and forget about the romanticised crap of 1916. Civil war politics had delivered us a plate of cute-hoorism and it is that platter, which is a dish best served cold...and in the bin.
    Boycott the "Irish" Sun rag.

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    Politics.ie Member Rural's Avatar
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    In 1798, Protestants and Catholics fought alongside each other. Yes, there were a few atrocities against Protestants but then there is a gurrier element attracted to any war or skirmish.

    I live at Oulart Hill, where a battle was won for the rebels, the monument commerating it is beautiful.

    Fr. Murphy was an accidental tourist in the middle of it all and was dragged in by association to others who he tried to protect, he was "shopped" by a family of Byrnes in Carlow.

    The main thing is... It would have been a different Republic, as DeVelara wouldn't have been involved.
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    Politics.ie Member Boy M5's Avatar
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    The defining points in our history prior to independence were the Act of Union and the Famine.
    The first wouldn't have happened, the second?
    "Keep firing & don't stop until I tell you" General Tom Barry

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    Politics.ie Member ruserious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boy M5 View Post
    The defining points in our history prior to independence were the Act of Union and the Famine.
    The first wouldn't have happened, the second?
    I think a republic would have looked after its people better than an empire ruled from London which influcenced the mass exports of food products. A disease may have occured but a republican government would have dealt with it better I would have thought.
    Boycott the "Irish" Sun rag.

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    Politics.ie Member Ren84's Avatar
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    I think about this from time to time. Who's to say we wouldn't have evolved into a Swiss style multi-ethnic state, with maximum autonomy for each county, a strong military to guard our neutrality and maybe, just maybe, one or two overseas territories.

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    Politics.ie Member Ren84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruserious View Post
    I think a republic would have looked after its people better than an empire ruled from London which influcenced the mass exports of food products. A disease may have occured but a republican government would have dealt with it better I would have thought.
    Famine probably would still have occurred but would have been less severe due to a greater response by the Dublin government.

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    Politics.ie Member ruserious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren84 View Post
    I think about this from time to time. Who's to say we wouldn't have evolved into a Swiss style multi-ethnic state, with maximum autonomy for each county, a strong military to guard our neutrality and maybe, just maybe, one or two overseas territories.
    Even DeV was advised that an Irish colony could be set up in part of Sudan!
    I still have my eye on Montserrat in the Caribbean if this country every has the misfortune for electing me to national office
    Boycott the "Irish" Sun rag.

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    Britain would have remained the greatest maritime power in the world. We would have had to have a very close relationship with her or risk blockade or invasion; it is unknown how this would have evolved. We would likely have had little international independence.

    We may, however, have been able to avert the Famine, the decline in the Irish language and the subsequent Ulster problem. The evil of absentee landlords would likely also have been righted.

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