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Thread: Clinical skills decline?

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    Default Clinical skills decline?

    I've been hearing some talk over here that over the last year or two Canadian grads from Irish med schools are behind on their clinical skills compared to the locally trained crowd. Historically, this would certainly not be the case. So two questions:

    1. Has anybody else noticed such a change in Irish med students?

    2. Financial collapse aside, have there been any other changes (e.g. in the curriculum) in the last few years that would reduce competence in basic examination of patients?
    Last edited by Ardillaun; 15th December 2012 at 05:58 PM. Reason: Unclear sentence.

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    Politics.ie Member Analyzer's Avatar
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    Irish Med School is surprisingly easy to pass if you have paid full fees.

    I heard that the management have given the instruction, that nobody who pays fees should "be allowed to fail".

    It has become a racket.
    Coveney's ambition is the be Ireland's next EU Commissar and Ireland will pay a price as he builds his CV to position himself sufficiently loyal to the nEU empire.

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    The Irish Medical system is the envy of the world don't you know.
    ‘The Great only appear great because we are on our knees: Let Us Rise!’ “ (James Larkin)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
    Irish Med School is surprisingly easy to pass if you have paid full fees.

    I heard that the management have given the instruction, that nobody who pays fees should "be allowed to fail".

    It has become a racket.
    It has an extremely hard entrance exam. For some, I have heard that lectures start at 8.
    The world is a very puzzling place. If you're not willing to be puzzled, you just become a replica of someone else's mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
    Irish Med School is surprisingly easy to pass if you have paid full fees.

    I heard that the management have given the instruction, that nobody who pays fees should "be allowed to fail".

    It has become a racket.
    Some people will believe anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardillaun View Post
    I've been hearing some talk over here that, over the last year or two, local (Canadian) grads from Irish med schools are behind on their clinical skills compared to the locals. Historically, this would certainly not be the case. So two questions:

    1. Has anybody else noticed such a change in Irish med students?

    2. Financial collapse aside, have there been any other changes (e.g. in the curriculum) in the last few years that would reduce competence in basic examination of patients?
    If there is a problem with the products of the medical schools one of the reasons can be the quality of training - but there is also the matter of candidate selection. These candidates have emerged from a sweatshop secondary education environment and some, at least, seem to be making a career choice based on the principle that achieving 600 points almost requires one to opt for medicine. Have they really had time and freedom from parental and other influences to make a considered career choice?
    I have long argued that we may be attaching too much importance to the pursuit of "fairness" in the award of university places, primarily to the detriment of a good secondary education for all, but maybe it is now also contributing to this type of outcome.

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    Politics.ie Member james5001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor View Post
    If there is a problem with the products of the medical schools one of the reasons can be the quality of training - but there is also the matter of candidate selection. These candidates have emerged from a sweatshop secondary education environment and some, at least, seem to be making a career choice based on the principle that achieving 600 points almost requires one to opt for medicine. Have they really had time and freedom from parental and other influences to make a considered career choice?
    I have long argued that we may be attaching too much importance to the pursuit of "fairness" in the award of university places, primarily to the detriment of a good secondary education for all, but maybe it is now also contributing to this type of outcome.
    I agree that there seems to be a kind of expectancy whereby if you achieve high points the degree you do should reflect that fact, which shouldn't be the case at all. But seeing that the LC has little to do with learning and more to do with memory, medical students should have to get at least over 500 points as there is so much to learn. But when it comes to problem solving, the LC doesn't really do that.
    The world is a very puzzling place. If you're not willing to be puzzled, you just become a replica of someone else's mind.

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    The Harney era has left its mark on Irish Medical schools. A fair few academics are more interested in setting up research firms on site and securing patents than they are in teaching students. In the new ''enterprise" culture they have taken their eyes off the ball in pursuit of personal gain.The students are as bright as buttons but are being badly served.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skiii View Post
    The Harney era has left its mark on Irish Medical schools. A fair few academics are more interested in setting up research firms on site and securing patents than they are in teaching students. In the new ''enterprise" culture they have taken their eyes off the ball in pursuit of personal gain.The students are as bright as buttons but are being badly served.
    Rot set in when Vice President for XYZ posts arrived on campus?
    This sig would be more impressive in Latin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OCicero View Post
    Rot set in when Vice President for XYZ posts arrived on campus?
    It is a huge problem and those at the top seem to be answerable to no one. It comes under the guise of ''enterprise" but it's all about drawing down grant money and securing patents. The teaching duties are down the toilet and ,as I said,it is most prevalent at the very top. Ardilaun's story from Canada does not surprise me.

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