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Thread: So where next?

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    Default So where next?

    When you leave all the bluster and sectarian needling to one side, the principal message to have emerged from the latest census seems to be that most people simply want to get on with their lives. Issues pertaining to flags and culture and all the other tribal minutia that will remain of overarching concern on websites like this, seem to have little relevance out there in the real world. Increasingly, it seems the man on the street is happy to acknowledge the amalgamation of identities that is Northern Ireland. He is happy to move on.

    I'm a republican, but I am one in the original sense of the word, meaning that I respect the principle of listening to what the people have to say, regardless of whether it's what I personally want to hear or not. We have to be honest with ourselves in terms of how the the wind is blowing in Northern Ireland. We have to accept that people simply no longer want to play a part in the "us versus them" nonsense that has defined the place since the troubles first broke out. The growing obsolescence of zero-sum politics in the province is embodied in the amalgamation of identities that last year's census has served to highlight. It should be respected.

    What does 'respect' mean in this context? It means accepting that, while a journey remains ahead for nationalists, the destination is no longer so clear.

    I'd be interested in hearing people's opinion on what that destination should be.
    Last edited by SKBAC; 13th December 2012 at 05:53 PM.

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    Politics.ie Member ArtyisBack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SKBAC View Post
    When you leave all the bluster and sectarian needling to one side, the principal message to have emerged from the latest census seems to be that most people simply want to get on with their lives. Issues pertaining to flags and culture and all the other tribal minutia that will remain of overarching concern on websites like this, seem to have little relevance out there in the real world. Increasingly, it seems the man on the street is happy to acknowledge the amalgamation of identities that is Northern Ireland. He is happy to move on.

    I'm a republican, but I am one in the original sense of the word, meaning that I respect the principle of listening to what the people have to say, regardless of whether it's what I personally want to hear or not. We have to be honest with ourselves in terms of how the the wind is blowing in Northern Ireland. We have to accept that people simply no longer want to play a part in the "us versus them" nonsense that has defined the place since the troubles first broke out. The growing obsolescence of zero-sum politics in the province is embodied in the amalgamation of identities that last year's census has served to highlight. It should be respected.

    What does 'respect' mean in this context? It means accepting that, while a journey remains ahead nationalists, the destination is no longer so clear.

    I'd be interested in hearing people's opinion on what that destination should be.
    Today Belfast - tomorrow United Ireland. Only within that constitutional framework will there be stability.
    http://ulstersdoomed.blogspot.com/ http://www.requetes.com
    For unionism this is as good as it gets, for nationalism this is the worse it can be.

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    Politics.ie Member DavidCaldwell's Avatar
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    We do not need to agree on the destination. It suffices to agree on a method for deciding each next step - like "follow the river".

    One method chould be that of Monnet and Schumacher in building, after the Second World War, what became the European Union - "Find areas where a consensus can be achieved. Make progress in these areas".

    Another method would be to follow the policy (official SDLP policy?) of "First unite the people". I would imagine both would come to much the same thing.
    An East Irish

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKBAC View Post
    When you leave all the bluster and sectarian needling to one side, the principal message to have emerged from the latest census seems to be that most people simply want to get on with their lives. Issues pertaining to flags and culture and all the other tribal minutia that will remain of overarching concern on websites like this, seem to have little relevance out there in the real world. Increasingly, it seems the man on the street is happy to acknowledge the amalgamation of identities that is Northern Ireland. He is happy to move on.

    I'm a republican, but I am one in the original sense of the word, meaning that I respect the principle of listening to what the people have to say, regardless of whether it's what I personally want to hear or not. We have to be honest with ourselves in terms of how the the wind is blowing in Northern Ireland. We have to accept that people simply no longer want to play a part in the "us versus them" nonsense that has defined the place since the troubles first broke out. The growing obsolescence of zero-sum politics in the province is embodied in the amalgamation of identities that last year's census has served to highlight. It should be respected.

    What does 'respect' mean in this context? It means accepting that, while a journey remains ahead nationalists, the destination is no longer so clear.

    I'd be interested in hearing people's opinion on what that destination should be.
    A very thoughtful post SKBAC. I agree with your type of noble republican values, which I also share.

    I completely agree with moving away from "them and us". I think first of all that the census really shows that we can't hold to a "them and us" society for very much longer. The headcounting doesn't really work any more. 18% of people now say they are neither Protestant nor Catholic, and even when NISRA try to allocate them anyway using the religion they were brought up in, there are still 6% of people who are left unallocated. Those that are not one side or the other will go up I belive, as that is a trend.

    Yes there are unionists there are nationalists - and it remains important to acknowledge that - but its also time to accept its a lot more complex than that. There are many kinds of unionists from liberal to loyal, each with a legitimate contribution to make. And there are many kinds of nationalists and republicans from those who are Northern Irish to those that reject that.

    Outreach work between all sides is important but we must make sure that outreach is not a political posture but rather something real and for a purpose of building a better society.
    Last edited by factual; 13th December 2012 at 06:13 PM.

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    Politics.ie Member between the bridges's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyisBack View Post
    Today Belfast - tomorrow United Ireland. Only within that constitutional framework will there be stability.
    Nec Aspera Terrent..Is Tuaisceart-Éireannach mé. Má tá meas agat ar mo chultúr, beidh meas agam ar do chultúr.

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    Politics.ie Member ArtyisBack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by between the bridges View Post
    Of course you have no opinion - just keep trolling.
    http://ulstersdoomed.blogspot.com/ http://www.requetes.com
    For unionism this is as good as it gets, for nationalism this is the worse it can be.

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    Politics.ie Member between the bridges's Avatar
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    but in a way i agree with arty...next we will get the west brits to rejoin the commonwealth so by the time King Billy V becomes HMK we will be re-united under the crown...
    Nec Aspera Terrent..Is Tuaisceart-Éireannach mé. Má tá meas agat ar mo chultúr, beidh meas agam ar do chultúr.

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    Politics.ie Member ArtyisBack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by between the bridges View Post
    but in a way i agree with arty...next we will get the west brits to rejoin the commonwealth so by the time King Billy V becomes HMK we will be re-united under the crown...
    And that is the best contribution you can make?
    http://ulstersdoomed.blogspot.com/ http://www.requetes.com
    For unionism this is as good as it gets, for nationalism this is the worse it can be.

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    Politics.ie Member between the bridges's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyisBack View Post
    And that is the best contribution you can make?
    new blog time arty...uidreamupinsmoke@dodo.uk...
    Nec Aspera Terrent..Is Tuaisceart-Éireannach mé. Má tá meas agat ar mo chultúr, beidh meas agam ar do chultúr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKBAC View Post
    When you leave all the bluster and sectarian needling to one side, the principal message to have emerged from the latest census seems to be that most people simply want to get on with their lives. Issues pertaining to flags and culture and all the other tribal minutia that will remain of overarching concern on websites like this, seem to have little relevance out there in the real world. Increasingly, it seems the man on the street is happy to acknowledge the amalgamation of identities that is Northern Ireland. He is happy to move on.

    I'm a republican, but I am one in the original sense of the word, meaning that I respect the principle of listening to what the people have to say, regardless of whether it's what I personally want to hear or not. We have to be honest with ourselves in terms of how the the wind is blowing in Northern Ireland. We have to accept that people simply no longer want to play a part in the "us versus them" nonsense that has defined the place since the troubles first broke out. The growing obsolescence of zero-sum politics in the province is embodied in the amalgamation of identities that last year's census has served to highlight. It should be respected.

    What does 'respect' mean in this context? It means accepting that, while a journey remains ahead for nationalists, the destination is no longer so clear.

    I'd be interested in hearing people's opinion on what that destination should be.
    Just another point. You said yesterday that "I would argue that Irish unity is a non-starter until that province finds some kind of peace with itself." I agree with this-developing society to be less divided and building up a group of people that do not buy into "them and us". We in Dublin need to thin of ways of bringing that about. Administering a UI would be much less problematic if the "them and us" approach has been diminished and superceded with a more modern pluralist outlook.

    I also think that NI needs to devlop economically, as there is a lot about the problems up there that stem ultimately from poverty, economic poverty, lack of training, and lack of economic opportinity and ambition.

    The more modern pluralist outlook on live - that puts aside "them and us" - goes hand in hand with a more modern and productive economy where opportunities are available to people.

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