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Thread: Ask Not What Your Country Can do For You....

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Member Bren Boru's Avatar
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    Default Ask Not What Your Country Can do For You....

    It seems that every second thread on P.ie these days is anti Government i.e. anti an administration that is in power for less that 2 years with a mandate to sort out a crisis that will take 10 years to somewhat resolve.

    The negativity is crucifying. The vast majority of posts to these threads reek of entitlement. People are prepared to criticise but not to give. Posters don't seem to accept a reality that a deficit of over Ä10bn is a) unsustainable, b) reducing, and c) not created by either of the parties in power right now. The sense of unreality from posters who claim to have all the answers but couldn't actually run a school jamboree is bordering on hilarious.

    And anyone who claims to have any respect or support for this Government is slammed and ridiculed, which I will be after I post this.

    When criticising the country or the Government, people should be clear what their standard is or who they are comparing country or Government too. Personally I feel grateful to live in a country where my daughter will receive free education up to when she leaves secondary school. My Dad, at 82, gets partially subsidised by the State to spend his final years in a nursing home. When we needed carers assistance we received it, when we needed more we paid for it. If we are asked to pay more for my Dads care we will happliy stump it up.

    Like everyone else, we are getting less in childcare after the last budget, but so be it. We will make our adjustment as necessary. And that doesn't make me a poodle or a Government patsie or whatever. Simply, anything is preferable to the State going under.

    Nothing is perfect. I believe that universal benefits should be means tested or taxed. Why should people in Ballymun subsidise people in Foxrock. I don't understand why Governments don't tackle this and there should be an intention to deal with this announced by the sitting Government with the intention of it being brought in within, say 2 years. I also have issues with paying unsecured bond holders. But those criticising the actions of the Government have a) never negotiated for as much as a bag of fruit, and, b) have no concept of what would arise from unilateral default. The Government won't pay the promissory note next year but that won't be enough for most people, particularly those who were so certain that the Euro was going to wind up 2 years ago, then 18 months ago, then 1 year ago etc. If you keep saying it often enough, it will happen eventually.

    Also, there are weak links in Government. Hogan and Reilly are liabilities. Of that there is no doubt. I can only think that Enda Kenny has decided that there will be no cabinet resignations in his time. However, like I say, nothing is perfect and the faults of this Government are miniscule compared to what we've been through in the previous 14 years.

    I do believe that this Government will restore economic sovereignty. And it will do so by taking the hard decisions for which we will all pay. When that is done, it will be payback time and the country (and hopefully the most vulnerable) will share in the fruits of a competitive and revived economy, in a responsible manner.

    I am aware that our representatives are well paid and an example needs to be set from above. However, the current Government has taken pay cuts and the Taoiseach is paid substantially less than is predecessors. Also, no more will we say the massive pay off for retiring ministers that the last FF bunch paid themselves. Many P.ie posters think that the measure of a good Taoiseach or a good Government is the size of the reduction in pay that they take.

    We need to take responsibility for ourselves, our families and our neighbours (particularly the elderly), and keep community at the heart of what we do. We should never forget how lucky most of us are, and work for those who aren't so lucky. We should set the right example to our kids and teach them to be compassionate and unselfish. We should be thankful that we live in a democracy. And above all we should stop the incessant whinging and take responsibility for ourselves, our community and our country.

  2. #2
    Politics.ie Member ruserious's Avatar
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    As long as the Travellers don't move in next door, isn't that right Phil?
    Boycott the "Irish" Sun rag.

  3. #3
    Politics.ie Member SeanieFitz's Avatar
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    good post Bren and i agree with most of what you have said.

    I realised long ago that most of the opinions, sentiments and vitriol posted on this site do not reflect the opinions of people in "the real world". this site is an extension of the Joe Duffy show where some posters can vent their anger, moan, post untruths, encourage division and pursue their own agenda.
    I posted some time ago that i believe that the overwhelming majority of our current government work damn hard, are committed and honest. by god did i get some abuse. but thats the way things are on this site, regrettably politics.ie has a large number of sideline hurlers!

  4. #4
    Politics.ie Member Eire1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bren Boru View Post
    It seems that every second thread on P.ie these days is anti Government i.e. anti an administration that is in power for less that 2 years with a mandate to sort out a crisis that will take 10 years to somewhat resolve.

    The negativity is crucifying. The vast majority of posts to these threads reek of entitlement. People are prepared to criticise but not to give. Posters don't seem to accept a reality that a deficit of over €10bn is a) unsustainable, b) reducing, and c) not created by either of the parties in power right now. The sense of unreality from posters who claim to have all the answers but couldn't actually run a school jamboree is bordering on hilarious.

    And anyone who claims to have any respect or support for this Government is slammed and ridiculed, which I will be after I post this.

    When criticising the country or the Government, people should be clear what their standard is or who they are comparing country or Government too. Personally I feel grateful to live in a country where my daughter will receive free education up to when she leaves secondary school. My Dad, at 82, gets partially subsidised by the State to spend his final years in a nursing home. When we needed carers assistance we received it, when we needed more we paid for it. If we are asked to pay more for my Dads care we will happliy stump it up.

    Like everyone else, we are getting less in childcare after the last budget, but so be it. We will make our adjustment as necessary. And that doesn't make me a poodle or a Government patsie or whatever. Simply, anything is preferable to the State going under.

    Nothing is perfect. I believe that universal benefits should be means tested or taxed. Why should people in Ballymun subsidise people in Foxrock. I don't understand why Governments don't tackle this and there should be an intention to deal with this announced by the sitting Government with the intention of it being brought in within, say 2 years. I also have issues with paying unsecured bond holders. But those criticising the actions of the Government have a) never negotiated for as much as a bag of fruit, and, b) have no concept of what would arise from unilateral default. The Government won't pay the promissory note next year but that won't be enough for most people, particularly those who were so certain that the Euro was going to wind up 2 years ago, then 18 months ago, then 1 year ago etc. If you keep saying it often enough, it will happen eventually.

    Also, there are weak links in Government. Hogan and Reilly are liabilities. Of that there is no doubt. I can only think that Enda Kenny has decided that there will be no cabinet resignations in his time. However, like I say, nothing is perfect and the faults of this Government are miniscule compared to what we've been through in the previous 14 years.

    I do believe that this Government will restore economic sovereignty. And it will do so by taking the hard decisions for which we will all pay. When that is done, it will be payback time and the country (and hopefully the most vulnerable) will share in the fruits of a competitive and revived economy, in a responsible manner.

    I am aware that our representatives are well paid and an example needs to be set from above. However, the current Government has taken pay cuts and the Taoiseach is paid substantially less than is predecessors. Also, no more will we say the massive pay off for retiring ministers that the last FF bunch paid themselves. Many P.ie posters think that the measure of a good Taoiseach or a good Government is the size of the reduction in pay that they take.

    We need to take responsibility for ourselves, our families and our neighbours (particularly the elderly), and keep community at the heart of what we do. We should never forget how lucky most of us are, and work for those who aren't so lucky. We should set the right example to our kids and teach them to be compassionate and unselfish. We should be thankful that we live in a democracy. And above all we should stop the incessant whinging and take responsibility for ourselves, our community and our country.
    Politicians the world over have sold their souls to vested intersts long ago. The days of really dedicated highly motivated leaders is long gone.

    Look at the crop that we have had for the last 30 years or more. All are tainted by big business dealings and corruption.

    Hard to really believe that good can come from a rotten system.

  5. #5
    Politics.ie Member
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    The government need to lead by example and take some major pay cuts and go after Berties pensions too. The government are not doing whatís best for the country at the moment they are doing what's most convenient/easy and if you donít have a strong lobby to represent you your screwed.

  6. #6
    Politics.ie Member firefly123's Avatar
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    Brave post Brian. you will take some stick for it here. Apparently we live in a hell hole that Dante himself could not envisage. I believe the vast majority of our public representatives do their best in a system that limits any independent voice (whip system etc).
    I do wish things would move faster here and I believe the legal system has become far to much in favour of the accused to the point where people are afraid to say boo for fear of being dragged to the high court. I want heads to roll for the Anglo Irish debacle and the bank Guarantee. I want those in charge at the time and the bankers who caused so much strife to be locked away for the sake of our national psyche if anything.
    Life is hard
    That's why no-one survives

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by firefly123 View Post
    Brave post Brian. you will take some stick for it here. Apparently we live in a hell hole that Dante himself could not envisage. I believe the vast majority of our public representatives do their best in a system that limits any independent voice (whip system etc).
    I do wish things would move faster here and I believe the legal system has become far to much in favour of the accused to the point where people are afraid to say boo for fear of being dragged to the high court. I want heads to roll for the Anglo Irish debacle and the bank Guarantee. I want those in charge at the time and the bankers who caused so much strife to be locked away for the sake of our national psyche if anything.
    No bankers will go to jail because the financial regulator did not do their job. If you want to blame someone look to the financial regulator first.
    The media have done a great job deflecting responsibility from themselves and the key government institutions that hold equal blame.

  8. #8
    SeamusNapoleon
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    Bren,

    I apologise for giving such a short reply to your OP, but potatoeman has it right; the government literally have no concept right now of what it is to be sick with worry over a bill. They are grossly overpaid (not 'well paid', overpaid) and have no right to expect anything from us until they rectify this.

    They are incapable of empathy at that pay level.

  9. #9
    Gimpanzee
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potatoeman View Post
    No bankers will go to jail because the financial regulator did not do their job. If you want to blame someone look to the financial regulator first.
    The media have done a great job deflecting responsibility from themselves and the key government institutions that hold equal blame.
    The media is only as much to blame for anything - from hacking to property pimping - as the society it exists in. The media is a symptom not a cause. Same goes for politicians in almost all cases.

    Start with the electorate, because they are the root of it all. We have a lot of poorly educated people when it comes to civic matters and we let them vote. And after almost a century of that we have deeply ingrained systems that are in technical jargon.... sh!te.

    All else is waffle.

  10. #10
    Politics.ie Member firefly123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firefly123 View Post
    Brave post Brian. you will take some stick for it here. Apparently we live in a hell hole that Dante himself could not envisage. I believe the vast majority of our public representatives do their best in a system that limits any independent voice (whip system etc).
    I do wish things would move faster here and I believe the legal system has become far to much in favour of the accused to the point where people are afraid to say boo for fear of being dragged to the high court. I want heads to roll for the Anglo Irish debacle and the bank Guarantee. I want those in charge at the time and the bankers who caused so much strife to be locked away for the sake of our national psyche if anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Potatoeman View Post
    No bankers will go to jail because the financial regulator did not do their job. If you want to blame someone look to the financial regulator first.
    The media have done a great job deflecting responsibility from themselves and the key government institutions that hold equal blame.
    Thats why I said...
    I want those in charge at the time
    to be done too. I believe our senior civil servants failed miserably to stand their ground on certain issues although the fact that the mejia here would have torn any regulator a new one if they tried to impose their silly rules on such heros as Seanie Fitz in the early 2000's. Still thats why Neary et al were paid megabucks.
    Life is hard
    That's why no-one survives

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