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Thread: Government spending well over half of national income-enough?

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    Default Government spending well over half of national income-enough?

    Ireland has caught up with the two biggest spending welfare states, France and Sweden,with government spending at around 56% of Gross National Income.See tables at end of http://budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2013/Do...%20Outlook.pdf

    Key figures: Current spending estimate 2012 60.4 billion + capital spending 6.8 bn = 67.2 bn. Plus interest costs 6.3 for a total of 73.5 billion. Gross national income (GNI) was 80.5% of GDP in 2011 and given the Finance estimate for 2012 for GDP of 163 bn,that suggests GNI of 131 bn. Total government spending of 73.5 bn divided by 131 bn is 56%,so well over half of national income is spent by government.

    With a well run government,such spending should give Ireland free health care,plentiful social housing,free third level education,primary schools free of prefabs,very generous day care,generous care for the elderly,high quality nursing homes and high quality public transport in the major cities.But lack of long range planning in favour of parish pump politics over decades has prevented proper development of these services. Let's hope the upcoming constitutional convention can find a remedy even if the public is not yet disillusioned with extreme proportional representation.

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    Politics.ie Member tokkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patslatt View Post
    Ireland has caught up with the two biggest spending welfare states, France and Sweden,with government spending at around 56% of Gross National Income.See tables at end of http://budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2013/Do...%20Outlook.pdf

    Key figures: Current spending estimate 2012 €60.4 billion + capital spending 6.8 bn = 67.2 bn. Plus interest costs 6.3 for a total of €73.5 billion. Gross national income (GNI) was 80.5% of GDP in 2011 and given the Finance estimate for 2012 for GDP of 163 bn,that suggests GNI of €131 bn. Total government spending of 73.5 bn divided by 131 bn is 56%,so well over half of national income is spent by government.

    With a well run government,such spending should give Ireland free health care,plentiful social housing,free third level education,primary schools free of prefabs,very generous day care,generous care for the elderly,high quality nursing homes and high quality public transport in the major cities.But lack of long range planning in favour of parish pump politics over decades has prevented proper development of these services. Let's hope the upcoming constitutional convention can find a remedy even if the public is not yet disillusioned with extreme proportional representation.
    Pat. Have to agree that at least two of those should be available when set in context against the spend.

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    Politics.ie Member statsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patslatt View Post
    Ireland has caught up with the two biggest spending welfare states, France and Sweden,with government spending at around 56% of Gross National Income.See tables at end of http://budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2013/Do...%20Outlook.pdf

    Key figures: Current spending estimate 2012 €60.4 billion + capital spending 6.8 bn = 67.2 bn. Plus interest costs 6.3 for a total of €73.5 billion. Gross national income (GNI) was 80.5% of GDP in 2011 and given the Finance estimate for 2012 for GDP of 163 bn,that suggests GNI of €131 bn. Total government spending of 73.5 bn divided by 131 bn is 56%,so well over half of national income is spent by government.

    With a well run government,such spending should give Ireland free health care,plentiful social housing,free third level education,primary schools free of prefabs,very generous day care,generous care for the elderly,high quality nursing homes and high quality public transport in the major cities.But lack of long range planning in favour of parish pump politics over decades has prevented proper development of these services. Let's hope the upcoming constitutional convention can find a remedy even if the public is not yet disillusioned with extreme proportional representation.
    Maybe they should announce some cuts. Like a budget kind of thing. I'm sure everyone would support that fully.
    Put a thief among honest men and they will eventually relieve him of his watch. Flann O'Brien

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    Yeap and look at France its going down the shyte pipe .Its commie time and people better get used to it .Governments in the West are all broke and they will be going after the rich who will bury there loot or move it out , they will improverish the middle classes,they will stop employers employing with political and taxation instability .
    Quote Originally Posted by patslatt View Post
    Ireland has caught up with the two biggest spending welfare states, France and Sweden,with government spending at around 56% of Gross National Income.See tables at end of http://budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2013/Do...%20Outlook.pdf

    Key figures: Current spending estimate 2012 €60.4 billion + capital spending 6.8 bn = 67.2 bn. Plus interest costs 6.3 for a total of €73.5 billion. Gross national income (GNI) was 80.5% of GDP in 2011 and given the Finance estimate for 2012 for GDP of 163 bn,that suggests GNI of €131 bn. Total government spending of 73.5 bn divided by 131 bn is 56%,so well over half of national income is spent by government.

    With a well run government,such spending should give Ireland free health care,plentiful social housing,free third level education,primary schools free of prefabs,very generous day care,generous care for the elderly,high quality nursing homes and high quality public transport in the major cities.But lack of long range planning in favour of parish pump politics over decades has prevented proper development of these services. Let's hope the upcoming constitutional convention can find a remedy even if the public is not yet disillusioned with extreme proportional representation.

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    Slightly off topic, but can somebody please show me where I can get figures for our current deficit and how much of the deficit is due to bank debt (recapitalisation), bailout debt (to keep us afloat) and old debt (legacy debt from before the bust in 2007)? I'm tired of hearing people saying that without the bank debt we would be fine but I only have estimates on what portions of our deficit are due to the varying reasons. Thanks!!

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    Politics.ie Member needle_too's Avatar
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    I wonder will Tonic et al. be along now to trumpet about how FF have been in power for most of the time since independence but have singularly, and as a deliberate act of policy, failed to deliver any of the above.

    FG/LAB/SF/GREENS/THE MAN ON THE STREET would have delivered these policies - granted, by different mechanism and requiring different levels of taxation and allowances - by now.

    Instead we have NAMA, the IMF and continued, entrenched, corruption.

    Well done FF; The bane of Ireland.

    Heres hoping the current administration can slowly unwind the fk up that FF has made of our economy, culture and nation and deliver, through hell or high water, the future that the young of Ireland deserve.

    FF: self-serving dogs and traitors.
    Small-minded, big-mouthed men in cheap suits.

    Never forget what they did to your country, your people, your family and your future.
    Last edited by needle_too; 8th December 2012 at 01:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patslatt View Post
    Key figures: Current spending estimate 2012 €60.4 billion + capital spending 6.8 bn = 67.2 bn. Plus interest costs 6.3 for a total of €73.5 billion. Gross national income (GNI) was 80.5% of GDP in 2011 and given the Finance estimate for 2012 for GDP of 163 bn,that suggests GNI of €131 bn. Total government spending of 73.5 bn divided by 131 bn is 56%,so well over half of national income is spent by government.
    You're double-counting the €6.3bn of interest costs. It's already included in the current spending estimate under "Non-voted Expenditure".
    Nothing will motivate the lazy / apathetic / Americanised / west-British types to embrace their culture and the Irish language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocal View Post
    Slightly off topic, but can somebody please show me where I can get figures for our current deficit and how much of the deficit is due to bank debt (recapitalisation), bailout debt (to keep us afloat) and old debt (legacy debt from before the bust in 2007)? I'm tired of hearing people saying that without the bank debt we would be fine but I only have estimates on what portions of our deficit are due to the varying reasons. Thanks!!
    You seem to be using deficit and debt interchangeably.

    Based on the figures this week the 2012 deficit will be €13.4 billion. Because of revenues from the guarantee, central bank, and other receipts from the banks if there wsa no bank bailout the deficit would be HIGHER probably close to €14.5 billion.

    The debt at the end of 2012 the debt will be around €190 billion.

    Pre-2008 debt: €45 billion
    Deficits 2008-2012: €80 billion
    "Bank" debt: €45 billion
    Other: €20 billion

    The 'Other' is mainly borrowing the build up a cash buffer of nearly €25 billion in the Exchequer Account.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fractional Reserve View Post
    Yeap and look at France its going down the shyte pipe .Its commie time and people better get used to it .Governments in the West are all broke and they will be going after the rich who will bury there loot or move it out , they will improverish the middle classes,they will stop employers employing with political and taxation instability .
    My biggest fear is that rapid advances in capital goods technology(in the west overall) will save their backsides, helping to maintain the status quo. Even with the undermining of real savings and investment in the real economy by state monetary and taxation policy , the rate of technological advancement is still speeding up.

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    Politics.ie Member tigerben's Avatar
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    A friend of mine today said , without the reduction of core welfare rates and rent allowance there's no need for the unemployed eastern European to leave these shores. She is right , all those leave and empty units in housing rises,, and investors are up the creek without a paddle.

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