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Thread: Third level socialising schools for some

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    Default Third level socialising schools for some

    See Higher education: Not what it used to be | The Economist

    Modern mass education at third level has produced huge numbers of graduates and presumably competition among them for jobs has helped maintain education standards at least among a sizeable minority. This minority vastly outnumbers the majority of students a generation ago when few students attended university in most countries. Even if standards have dropped at undergraduate level,selectivity at post graduate level can compensate for this.

    However,large numbers of students are being set a low bar or are not being challenged at all,going by trends in the USA as described in the above link:
    -"...literacy of college educated citizens declined between 1992 and 2003.Only a quarter were considered proficient..."
    -"Almost a third of students these days do not take any courses that involve more than 40 pages of reading over an entire term."

    The head of the American Teachers Union said a generation ago that Americans were going to college to get the equivalent of a high school education a generation before. If he were around today,the 40 pages of reading statistic would prompt him to say that many Americans were going to college to get a grade school (ie primary) education.

    That may not necessarily be a bad thing if students socialise actively and learn good social skills. Those skills are important in many jobs requiring customer relationships and teamwork. Surveys of employers show that hiring decisions usually are influenced by whether the job applicant can get along well with the people in the job.

    That said,colleges should demand more than 40 pages of reading a term.

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    I'm not clear what we're supposed to be discussing exactly.
    Repeal the 27th.

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    Politics.ie Member drummed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    I'm not clear what we're supposed to be discussing exactly.
    You have'nt even read the OP?

    Its worse than we thought Pat!
    Сохранить Украины

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    The 40 pages metric seems pretty pointless.

    In my field the average article is about 18-20 pages or so. In my flatmate's it's more like 5-8. That doesn't mean that there's necessarily more content in what I read than in what she does.
    Repeal the 27th.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    The 40 pages metric seems pretty pointless.

    In my field the average article is about 18-20 pages or so. In my flatmate's it's more like 5-8. That doesn't mean that there's necessarily more content in what I read than in what she does.
    Even for the flatmate,40 pages would be a low bar,about 6 articles a term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patslatt View Post
    Even for the flatmate,40 pages would be a low bar,about 6 articles a term.
    I've never known anyone on any course who has had to reach so little material in a year as 40 pages. 40 pages wouldn't be enough for an essay let alone a module in most arts courses, for example.
    Repeal the 27th.

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    Politics.ie Member seabhcan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patslatt View Post
    However,large numbers of students are being set a low bar or are not being challenged at all,going by trends in the USA as described in the above link:
    -"...literacy of college educated citizens declined between 1992 and 2003.Only a quarter were considered proficient..."
    -"Almost a third of students these days do not take any courses that involve more than 40 pages of reading over an entire term."
    Holy cow.

    I still have my notes from my undergrad. They're up in the attic in a hold all bag. I weighed it once - 70kg.

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    Politics.ie Member southwestkerry's Avatar
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    When one thinks about the experts that Irish college/university turn out, I must wounder why everything is run so badly.
    The US, now thats a different matter.
    SWK
    A ship at harbour is safe but that is not what ships were built for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seabhcan View Post
    Holy cow.

    I still have my notes from my undergrad. They're up in the attic in a hold all bag. I weighed it once - 70kg.
    ...So you found a bag in your attic that was about the weight of a human...
    Repeal the 27th.

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    Politics.ie Member stopdoingstuff's Avatar
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    I think the premise of the Economist's article is basically correct- University education at American prices does not represent a good investment for many majors. Would you borrow between 20 and 60 grand a year to pay for an Arts degree, when you could be an accountant for a fraction of the cost? There has been a lot written on this topic recently- student debt is going through the roof, graduate unemployment is depressingly high, the Education industry in the states has sold a lot of people false hope and left them in debt, and much of this is a result of unscrupulous public and private institutions and artificially subsidized Federal loans. It's a real mess.

    'The Student Loan Scam' | Inside Higher Ed

    How the Notion That a College Degree Is Essentially Worthless Has Become One of the Year’s Most Fashionable Ideas -- New York Magazine

    The second article is cool.

    Luckily, as mentioned in the Economist article, there are new more technologically enabled alternatives, and with 1 out of 2 recent graduates in the USA either unemployed or underemployed, I bet there will be a nice healthy shake-out coming soon.
    In Weak Job Market, One In Two College Graduates Are Jobless Or Underemployed

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