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Thread: Plantation of Ulster and Scottish famine victims ?

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    Politics.ie Member PO'Neill's Avatar
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    Default Plantation of Ulster and Scottish famine victims ?

    I'm starting this thread to discuss the real background of the Scottish peasants who fled from Scotland to Ireland in the 1600's to debunk the self delusional myths there are among unionists regarding the Ulster Palntation and the calibre of people in it. All sorts of supremacist theories have arisen to delude themselves from the Protestant work ethic ( obviously it didn’t occur to them that the Penal Laws and institutionalised discrimination might have something to do with it !!!!) to been the lost tribe of Israel followed by DUPer Nelson McCausland* etc, etc So to get the ball rolling, here is some useful information on the refugees who had to flee Scotland in the 1630's and 1690's - just like the victims of the Irish famine of 1847 had to go to Britain and America etc

    " The majority of British tenants on the Plantation were Scottish and were attracted to Ireland for economic reasons. Many were living in poverty in their home areas as an expanding population, rising prices and increased unemployment led to serious economic problems in Scotland, particularly in the 1630s when the numbers of Scottish people coming to Ireland soared. Migration to Ireland offered the possibility of immediate escape from dire poverty and the prospect of future prosperity. " BBC - History - Wars and Conflicts - Plantation of Ulster - Engish and Scottish Planters - Economic Background of the Settlers

    Not that was the last time Ireland had to accept the refugees of Britain, in particuliar Scotland, but again in the 1690's - " However a famine in Scotland, caused by crop failure in 1696-98, had a major impact in Ireland, causing Scottish Presbyterians to become an absolute majority in Ulster– where about 50,000 settled to escape hunger in their own country" War and Famine in Ireland, 1580-1700 | The Irish Story


    * "Nelson McCausland, who believes that Ulster Protestants are one of the lost tribes of Israel " ttp://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/may/26/northern-ireland-ulster-museum-creationism
    Follow the money in this country and it ALWAYS goes back to state support, be it tax breaks, state contracts and the manipulation of markets for the gombeen class.

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    Politics.ie Member ruserious's Avatar
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    As long as you have an IRA man as your avatar, I'm afraid you'll not find too many taking you seriously.
    Boycott the "Irish" Sun rag.

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    Politics.ie Member PO'Neill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruserious View Post
    As long as you have an IRA man as your avatar, I'm afraid you'll not find too many taking you seriously.
    But do you not think that when our unionist friends are playing the wannabe loyalist Rangers fans " Famine song " maybe they should take their own advice and " Why don't they go home ? "


    And indeed won't Rangers fans know all about famines for the next few years or even decades when it comes to winning any trophy's
    Follow the money in this country and it ALWAYS goes back to state support, be it tax breaks, state contracts and the manipulation of markets for the gombeen class.

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    Politics.ie Royalty toxic avenger's Avatar
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    We planted Scotland in the 5th and 6th Centuries remember, they are named for us. There were probably no shortage of Protestant settlers who were actually returning to where their ancestors had come from...

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    Politics.ie Member PO'Neill's Avatar
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    Not that the Scottish famines of the 1630's and 1690's were the last. Their also was the Highland Potato famine in the 1840's. In fairness to Glasgow city council they are erecting a monument to the victims of both the Scottish and Irish famines of the 1840's. Doubtful though if we'll get the same type of gesture from any of the main unionist party's.

    " Plans are being drawn up for a memorial in Glasgow to those who perished in the potato famine which blighted Ireland and the Scottish Highlands. "

    BBC News - Famine memorial moves approved by Glasgow City Council

    BBC - Scotland's History - The Potato blight devastates Scottish crops
    Follow the money in this country and it ALWAYS goes back to state support, be it tax breaks, state contracts and the manipulation of markets for the gombeen class.

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    Politics.ie Member PO'Neill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toxic avenger View Post
    We planted Scotland in the 5th and 6th Centuries remember, they are named for us. There were probably no shortage of Protestant settlers who were actually returning to where their ancestors had come from...
    Ah yes, the mysterious Cruthin tribe who were the orginal settlers in Ulster and like the Israelis were returning to their rightful lands in the 1600's from which they were exiled by the Irish !!!! A concocted load of bullsh!t if ever there was ........
    Follow the money in this country and it ALWAYS goes back to state support, be it tax breaks, state contracts and the manipulation of markets for the gombeen class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PO'Neill View Post
    I'm starting this thread to discuss the real background of the Scottish peasants who fled from Scotland to Ireland in the 1600's to debunk the self delusional myths there are among unionists regarding the Ulster Palntation and the calibre of people in it. All sorts of supremacist theories have arisen to delude themselves from the Protestant work ethic ( obviously it didn’t occur to them that the Penal Laws and institutionalised discrimination might have something to do with it !!!!) to been the lost tribe of Israel followed by DUPer Nelson McCausland* etc, etc So to get the ball rolling, here is some useful information on the refugees who had to flee Scotland in the 1630's and 1690's - just like the victims of the Irish famine of 1847 had to go to Britain and America etc

    " The majority of British tenants on the Plantation were Scottish and were attracted to Ireland for economic reasons. Many were living in poverty in their home areas as an expanding population, rising prices and increased unemployment led to serious economic problems in Scotland, particularly in the 1630s when the numbers of Scottish people coming to Ireland soared. Migration to Ireland offered the possibility of immediate escape from dire poverty and the prospect of future prosperity. " BBC - History - Wars and Conflicts - Plantation of Ulster - Engish and Scottish Planters - Economic Background of the Settlers

    Not that was the last time Ireland had to accept the refugees of Britain, in particuliar Scotland, but again in the 1690's - " However a famine in Scotland, caused by crop failure in 1696-98, had a major impact in Ireland, causing Scottish Presbyterians to become an absolute majority in Ulster– where about 50,000 settled to escape hunger in their own country" War and Famine in Ireland, 1580-1700 | The Irish Story


    * "Nelson McCausland, who believes that Ulster Protestants are one of the lost tribes of Israel " ttp://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/may/26/northern-ireland-ulster-museum-creationism
    The plantations were actually a failure, most protestant settlers emigrated gradually, not part of any planned settlement. In addition to this, many protestant settlers were Gaelic speaking highlanders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PO'Neill View Post
    Ah yes, the mysterious Cruthin tribe who were the orginal settlers in Ulster and like the Israelis were returning to their rightful lands in the 1600's from which they were exiled by the Irish !!!! A concocted load of bullsh!t if ever there was ........
    No, medieval Gaelic kingdoms spanned both countries and saw lots of coming and going between Ireland and Scotland.

    Dál Riata - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And anyway, since many 'Ulster Scots' arrived here not as conquerors but impoverished immigrants wouldn't that actually give their ancestors more not less claim to belong here?

    many protestant settlers were Gaelic speaking highlanders
    I've hear this before, but is that true? The terms of the plantation were that settlers had to be both Protestant and English (or Scots whcih actually was rather different back then) speakers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnD66 View Post
    I've hear this before, but is that true? The terms of the plantation were that settlers had to be both Protestant and English (or Scots which actually was rather different back then) speakers.
    Like I said, the plantations were actually a failure, most settlers in the likes of Antrim and Down did not arrive as part of any plantation, but organically as part of a natural, steady migration before and after the official plantations.

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    Politics.ie Member PO'Neill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnD66 View Post
    No, medieval Gaelic kingdoms spanned both countries and saw lots of coming and going between Ireland and Scotland.

    Dál Riata - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And anyway, since many 'Ulster Scots' arrived here not as conquerors but impoverished immigrants wouldn't that actually give their ancestors more not less claim to belong here?


    I've hear this before, but is that true? The terms of the plantation were that settlers had to be both Protestant and English (or Scots whcih actually was rather different back then) speakers.
    " 'Ulster Scots' arrived here not as conquerors but impoverished immigrants " Yes, tell that to our unionist friends, might knock some sectarianism out of them hopefully.
    Follow the money in this country and it ALWAYS goes back to state support, be it tax breaks, state contracts and the manipulation of markets for the gombeen class.

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