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Thread: How incompetent and useless are Auctioneers & Valuers?

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    Politics.ie Member Aristodemus's Avatar
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    Default How incompetent and useless are Auctioneers & Valuers?

    We are well used to these experts knowing absolutely nothing about property prices. It hasn't stopped some of the most incompetent ones jumping on the gravy train that is NAMA as official valuers including the imbecile that valued the Glass Bottle site in Dublin 4 at over €400m. However, when it comes to art and atefacts one would think that in the spirit of Lovejoy that some of these people would know their business. Not so. Yesterday at a sale in Durrow an item went for 157 times its valuation, no doubt assessed by a "competent valuer". The tragedy is that his commission is paid on the price achieved and not on his valuation.

    Chinese jade seal valued at €5,000 fetches €630,000 - National News - Independent.ie

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    All it takes is two bidders with deep pockets to get into a bidding war and any anticipated "value" goes straight out the window.

    That's the same flaw we have with the proposed property tax. It isn't based on what you paid for your house, but rather what two wealthy bidders bid up the the "value" of the house next door to.

    Now everybody on the street is suddenly much "wealthier", even though they have the same amount of cash in their pockets (and will have less cash in their pockets next year when they have to fork out a tax based on the new "value" of their homes.
    "Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain

    “When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristodemus View Post
    We are well used to these experts knowing absolutely nothing about property prices. It hasn't stopped some of the most incompetent ones jumping on the gravy train that is NAMA as official valuers including the imbecile that valued the Glass Bottle site in Dublin 4 at over €400m. However, when it comes to art and atefacts one would think that in the spirit of Lovejoy that some of these people would know their business. Not so. Yesterday at a sale in Durrow an item went for 157 times its valuation, no doubt assessed by a "competent valuer". The tragedy is that his commission is paid on the price achieved and not on his valuation.

    Chinese jade seal valued at €5,000 fetches €630,000 - National News - Independent.ie
    A value is subjective you idiot.
    It's imaginary.
    The work you do has no value unless someone decides it does and thinks it is worth their while to benefit from your work by giving pieces of paper called money. They have no value if the person who you use the pieces of paper to buy food from decides they aren't worth their time taking in exchange.
    We give value to things because we think they will benefit us.
    So if enough people think a piece of property is worth £500,000 it is worth it until such time as they think otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristodemus View Post
    We are well used to these experts knowing absolutely nothing about property prices. It hasn't stopped some of the most incompetent ones jumping on the gravy train that is NAMA as official valuers including the imbecile that valued the Glass Bottle site in Dublin 4 at over €400m. However, when it comes to art and atefacts one would think that in the spirit of Lovejoy that some of these people would know their business. Not so. Yesterday at a sale in Durrow an item went for 157 times its valuation, no doubt assessed by a "competent valuer". The tragedy is that his commission is paid on the price achieved and not on his valuation.

    Chinese jade seal valued at €5,000 fetches €630,000 - National News - Independent.ie
    Jesus Christ almighty.

    How stupid are you?

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    Politics.ie Member sic transit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPN View Post
    All it takes is two bidders with deep pockets to get into a bidding war and any anticipated "value" goes straight out the window.

    That's the same flaw we have with the proposed property tax. It isn't based on what you paid for your house, but rather what two wealthy bidders bid up the the "value" of the house next door to.

    Now everybody on the street is suddenly much "wealthier", even though they have the same amount of cash in their pockets (and will have less cash in their pockets next year when they have to fork out a tax based on the new "value" of their homes.
    Initially this seems to be the case but I did hear a comment yesterday suggesting that councils will be able to adjust the rate from 2015. This in theory will mean lower rates in areas like cities and towns, where services are cheaper to provide.
    Last edited by sic transit; 30th November 2012 at 01:01 PM.
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self." Ernest Hemingway

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    Politics.ie Member Aristodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitch 22 View Post
    A value is subjective you idiot.
    It's imaginary.
    The work you do has no value unless someone decides it does and thinks it is worth their while to benefit from your work by giving pieces of paper called money. They have no value if the person who you use the pieces of paper to buy food from decides they aren't worth their time taking in exchange.
    We give value to things because we think they will benefit us.
    So if enough people think a piece of property is worth £500,000 it is worth it until such time as they think otherwise.
    I am well aware that any valuation is subjective. However some valuations are supposed to carry more weight than others. For instance, if you are disposing of a property which you may have owned for 40 years and is subject to Capital Gains Tax the Revenue will accept the valuation of a "competent valuer" for the purposes of the tax. If you refuse to use the services of one of these "experts" the chances are you will face a higher bill. My complaint is that these people are no more expert than anyone else yet they earn fees, not on the basis of any professional service they offer but merely on what price an object or property achieves with absolutely no input from them

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    My problem with the Auctioneering profession is with our property market. They played a huge part in blowing a bubble and bursting it.

    Too much emphasis was placed on their supposed valuations which merely added a few percent to the last price achieved in the area.

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    Politics.ie Member Spanner Island's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sic transit View Post
    Initially this seems to be the case but I did hear a comment yesterday suggesting that councils will be able to adjust the rate from 2015. This in theory will mean lower rates in areas like cities and towns, where services are cheaper to provide.
    ...which will be when the sh!t really hits the fan if it hasn't done already by then...

    If they attempt to justify it as a cost for services they won't have a prayer...

    Why should anyone living in rural Ireland on potholed roads without lights, with a septic tank in the garden and who pays their electricity and refuse collection bills have to pay for any services from any council?

    This idiotic tax should be based on a combination of property area and use and not on value.

    Basing it on value will create the real potential for abuse that will see all sorts of vested interests (including the government) benefiting from higher valuations...

    It is a disastrous decision that proves 'establishment' Ireland have learned no lessons from the property bubble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spanner Island View Post
    ...which will be when the sh!t really hits the fan if it hasn't done already by then...

    If they attempt to justify it as a cost for services they won't have a prayer...

    Why should anyone living in rural Ireland on potholed roads without lights, with a septic tank in the garden and who pays their electricity and refuse collection bills have to pay for any services from any council?

    This idiotic tax should be based on property area and use and that's it.

    Basing it on value is creating the real potential for abuse that will see all sorts of vested interests (including the government) benefiting from higher valuations...

    It is a disastrous decision that proves 'establishment' Ireland have learned no lessons from the property bubble.
    Too what extent could people be charged for the services they actually use?

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    Politics.ie Member Aristodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spanner Island View Post
    ...which will be when the sh!t really hits the fan if it hasn't done already by then...

    If they attempt to justify it as a cost for services they won't have a prayer...

    Why should anyone living in rural Ireland on potholed roads without lights, with a septic tank in the garden and who pays their electricity and refuse collection bills have to pay for any services from any council?
    This idiotic tax should be based on a combination of property area and use and not on value.

    Basing it on value will create the real potential for abuse that will see all sorts of vested interests (including the government) benefiting from higher valuations...

    It is a disastrous decision that proves 'establishment' Ireland have learned no lessons from the property bubble.
    This is a common misconception. This tax is not to pay directly for services but is merely a further means of collecting revenue

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