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Thread: What would you like to see those on Welfare receive?

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    Default What would you like to see those on Welfare receive?

    You don’t need to go far on P.ie or even outside your very own front door to find people who make bold statements about people on welfare.

    Even on Primetime last night (27/11/12) we had Sean Murphy Deputy Chief Executive, Chambers Ireland tell us that middle class to high earner no longer could afford to carry those on welfare and welfare payments should be substantially cut. He claimed that if welfare payments were cut people would leave welfare and re-enter the jobs market. I will return to this later.

    When people make statements about slashing welfare I sometimes wonder if they are actually considering their statements and understanding the effects welfare cuts would have. Do they for instance consider all welfare claimants the same of do they break down each category of claims and base their assumptions on any particular group?

    I have started this thread for two reasons, 1) I believe there to be far too many brash false lies spread about those unfortunate enough to find themselves relying on welfare. 2) To highlight the issues of welfare cuts and to find some common ground with those who look for cuts to understand the logic of their claims.

    In short I would like posters to express what they would like to see those on welfare receive.

    Before you answer I’d like you to read this post fully and respond once you have read and understand some basics.

    WHO IS GETTING WELFARE?


    So who is actually in receipt of welfare payments?

    1) The Unemployed
    2) Part Time Workers
    3) Low Paid Workers
    4) OAPs
    5) Disabled and Illness
    6) Carers
    7) Families
    8) Families in receipt of Family Income Supplement (FIS)
    9) Foster Parents
    10) Death related Benefits
    11) Back to Education
    12) Farming and Fishing
    13) Supplementary Welfare Schemes
    14) Extra Benefits
    Last edited by Neutron; 28th November 2012 at 05:21 PM.

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    Farming and Fishing

    Farm Assist
    Farm Assist is an income support scheme for farmers. Find out about the means test for this payment and the rules about who can qualify.Rural Social Scheme
    The Rural Social Scheme (RSS) provides income support for farmers and fishermen/women who are getting certain social welfare payments.

    Back to Education

    Back to Education Allowance

    The Back to Education Allowance Scheme helps people who are unemployed, are getting a One-Parent Family Payment or have a disability, to pursue approved second-or third-level education courses.
    Part-Time Education Option
    You can keep your jobseeker's payment and take part in a part-time course to improve your chances of getting a job. Find out more.Education, Training and Development Option
    You can take part in certain courses of education, training or development and keep your jobseeker's payment. Find out more.Vocational Training Opportunities Scheme
    This scheme offers education and training courses for unemployed adults and other people getting certain social welfare payments.
    This document is in: Education and Training > Returning to EducationSocial welfare payments and the student grant
    Information on claiming a social welfare payment, BTEA and the student grant.

    Death Related Benefits

    Widow's, Widower's or Surviving Civil Partner’s (Non-Contributory) Pension
    This document describes the Widow's, Widower's or Surviving Civil Partner’s Non-Contributory Pension (formerly Widow's/Widower's (Non-Contributory) Pension) which is payable to widowed people or surviving civil partners who do not qualify for a contributory pension and who pass a means test.Standard Bereavement Grant
    Outlines the rules, rates and eligibility requirements for the Standard Bereavement Grant.Widowed or Surviving Civil Partner Grant
    Outlines the rules, regulations and application procedure involved in applying for the Widowed or Surviving Civil Partner Grant.Social welfare payments following a death
    What happens to social welfare payments in Ireland following a death? Find out why some payments continue for 6 weeks following a death, and how to apply.Widow's, Widower's or Surviving Civil Partner's (Contributory) Pension
    A Widow's, Widower's or Surviving Civil Partner's contributory pension (formerly the Widow's/Widower's (Contributory) Pension) and related social welfare benefits may be payable if either the deceased person or their spouse/civil partner has enough PRSI contributions.Guardian's payments
    A guardian's payment or Orphan's Pension may be made to a person taking care of an orphan. In some cases it can be paid directly to the orphan.Special Funeral Grant
    Covers the Special Funeral Grant available under the Occupational Injuries Scheme to the depenents of anyone who dies as a result of a work related accident or illness.Bereavement grants
    Outlines the rules, regulations and application procedure involved in applying for the three types of Bereavement Grants.Death Benefits under the Occupational Injuries Scheme
    Information about Death Benefits under the Occupational Injuries Scheme.

    Foster Parents

    The HSE pays a basic maintenance allowance to foster parents and families and offers strong support structures to assist the child, carer and family during the fostering term. The HSE also provides training for the carer or family, on-going liaison with social workers, insurance and a medical card for the child in care. Allowances payable for children in foster care placements are as follows for 2012:
    Age of child
    Payment per week
    Under 12 years €312 per child per week
    Over 12 years €339 per child per week


    Family Income Supplement

    The Department of Social Protection calculates your assessable income and your average income over a certain period of time.If you are paid weekly or fortnightly, your weekly income is taken as your average weekly earnings over four weeks. If you are paid monthly, your weekly income is based on your average weekly earnings in a set two-month period. If your spouse, civil partner or cohabitant is self-employed, his or her income over the 12-month period before you lodge your claim is used to work out his or her average weekly income. However if it is more appropriate your average weekly income may be worked out on the basis of another period - for example your P60 may be used to calculate your average income from employment.Again, to qualify, your average weekly family income must be below a certain amount for your family size.FIS income limits in 2012:
    If you have: And your weekly family income is less than:
    One child €506
    Two children €602
    Three children €703
    Four children €824
    Five children €950
    Six children €1,066
    Seven children €1,202
    Eight children €1,298


    Families
    Maternity Benefit

    Maternity Benefit is a payment by the Department of Social Protection to women on maternity leave from work. Find out more about Maternity Benefit and how to apply.
    Child Benefit
    Child Benefit is a payment to the parents or guardians of children under 16 years of age, or under 18 years of age if the child is in full-time education or has a disability.One-Parent Family Payment
    One-Parent Family Payment is a payment for men and women who are bringing children up without the support of a partner.Health and Safety Benefit
    A summary of Health and Safety Benefit for pregnant/breastfeeding women.Adoptive Benefit
    Adoptive Benefit is a payment made to certain people that adopt children. Find out how to apply and rates of benefit.
    Back to School Clothing and Footwear Allowance
    The Back to School Clothing and Footwear Allowance is paid each year to families on certain social welfare and other benefits. The scheme helps families with the cost of sending children back to school.Deserted wife's social welfare payments
    Deserted Wife’s Benefit is a social insurance payment made to a women who was deserted by her husband. Deserted Wife's Allowance is a means-tested paid to women that do not qualify for Deserted Wife's Benefit. Both payments were closed off to new applicants in January 1997. Some women however continue to get a deserted wife's payment.Pregnancy and social welfare payments
    Pregnancy may affect your social welfare payment. You may be entitled to a different payment or an increase in your current payment. Find out more here.

    Carers

    Carer's Allowance

    Carer's Allowance is a means-tested payment to people in Ireland caring for an incapacitated person.
    Half-rate Carer's Allowance
    Half-rate Carer's Allowance is payable with certain other social welfare payments provided you meet the qualifying criteria. Find out how to qualify for half-rate Carer's Allowance.Carer's Benefit
    Carer's Benefit is a social insurance payment in Ireland made to someone who gives up work in order to care for an incapacitated person.Respite Care Grant
    Respite Care Grant is an annual cash payment to carers.Domiciliary Care Allowance
    A Domiciliary Care Allowance is a monthly payment made to the carer of a child with a severe disability who lives at home. Find out more.

    Disabled and illlness
    Illness Benefit
    Information about Illness Benefit, a payment made to people under 66 who are unable to work because of illness.Invalidity Pension
    Invalidity Pension is a social insurance payment that may be paid to people in Ireland who are incapable of work and getting Illness Benefit for at least twelve months immediately before the date of their claim.Disability Allowance
    A weekly payment to people that have an injury, illness or disability which is expected to last more than a year. Find out how to qualify and rates of payment.Blind Pension
    The Blind Pension is a means tested payment paid to blind and visually impaired people normally living in Ireland. Find out more about this social welfare payment and how to apply.Treatment Benefit Scheme
    The Treatment Benefit Scheme is a scheme run by the Department of Social Protection that provides dental, optical and aural services to people with the required number of PRSI contributions.Occupational Injuries Benefit Scheme - Introduction
    The Occupational Injuries Benefit scheme provides a range of benefits for people injured or incapacitated by an accident at work or while travelling directly to or from work.Injury Benefit
    Injury Benefit is a weekly payment made to employees in Ireland who are unfit for work as a result of an accident at work or because they have contracted a disease due to the type of work they do. Find out more.Disablement Benefit
    Disablement benefit may be payable to you if as a result of an accident at work in Ireland or a prescribed disease contracted at work, you suffer a loss of physical or mental faculty.Medical Care Scheme
    An insured employee in Ireland that is injured at work or who contracts a prescribed occupational disease is entitled to social welfare benefits.Disability payments and work
    You may be able to work and either keep all or some of your disability payment. Find out how rehabilitative work can affect your disability payment and any secondary benefits you are getting.
    This document is in: Social Welfare > Social welfare payments > Social welfare payments and workDomiciliary Care Allowance
    A Domiciliary Care Allowance is a monthly payment made to the carer of a child with a severe disability who lives at home. Find out more.Partial Capacity Benefit
    Partial Capacity Benefit is a scheme to support people on Illness Benefit or Invalidity Pension who want to return to work.

    OAPs
    State Pension (Contributory )
    The State Pension (Contributory), previously called the Old Age (Contributory) Pension, is payable to people aged 66 and over who have worked and paid enough social insurance contributions.State Pension (Non-Contributory)
    The State Pension (Non-Contributory) previously called the Old Age Non-Contributory Pension is a means-tested payment available to people in Ireland aged 66 and over who do not qualify for a contributory pension.State Pension (Transition)
    The State Pension (Transition), formerly called the Retirement Pension, is a payment to people aged 65 who have retired from work and who have enough social insurance contributions.Early retirement
    Entitlements to state payments of people who retire early, whether through redundancy or by choosing early retirement and the measures they should take to ensure they retain entitlement to long-term pensionsCentenarian Bounty
    The Centenarian Bounty is a payment given to individuals resident in Ireland and Irish citizens abroad who reach the age of 100.

    Unemployed, Low paid workers & Part Time workers

    Signing on
    If you lose your job or are unemployed you may get a social welfare payment. Find out more about getting a social welfare payment when you are unemployed.Jobseeker's Benefit
    This is a weekly payment to people who have lost their job and are covered by social insurance. Find out if you can get this and other benefits.Jobseeker's Allowance
    A means-tested payment to people who are unemployed and looking for work. Find out if you can get Jobseeker's Allowance.Means test for Jobseeker's Allowance
    To get Jobseeker's Allowance you must satisfy a means test. A means test examines all your sources of income. However, some income is not taken into account in the calculation of your means.
    This document is in: Social Welfare > Irish social welfare system > Means test for social welfare paymentsWork and Jobseeker's Allowance
    Explains how your income from work and your spouse's income from work can affect your rate of Jobseeker's Allowance.
    This document is in: Social Welfare > Irish social welfare system > Means test for social welfare paymentsJobseeker's Benefit and work
    You may be able to work and get Jobseeker's Benefit. This document explains how your work and your spouse's or partner's income from work can affect your Jobseeker's Benefit.
    This document is in: Social Welfare > Social welfare payments > Social welfare payments and workPre-Retirement Allowance
    The Pre-Retirement Allowance is a means-tested payment for people aged 55 and over who consider themselves retired rather than unemployed. Since 4 July 2007, the Pre-Retirement Allowance is closed to new applicants but existing recipients may continue to get it.Self-employed and unemployment
    Has your business closed down? Are you self-employed but have less work and less income? Find out if you can get a social welfare payment.Signing off when you start work
    You are required to notify your local social welfare office if you have been claiming social welfare benefits and are returning to work.

    Supplementary Welfare Schemes
    Supplementary Welfare Allowance
    Supplementary Welfare Allowance is a payment to people that have no income. Outlines the conditions for entitlement to Supplementary Welfare Allowance including the means test.Administration of the Supplementary Welfare Allowance Scheme
    Department of Social Protection representatives (formerly known as Community Welfare Officers (CWOs)) are responsible for the day to day administration of the Supplementary Welfare Allowance Scheme. Find out about their role and responsibilities.Exceptional and urgent needs payments
    Outlines the rules, regulations and application procedure involved in applying for an exceptional needs or emergency payment. Including help with funeral costs and fuel bills. To get this payment you must be in urgent need or have little or no means.Diet and heating supplements
    Additional weekly supplements for special diets and heating requirements are available in Ireland under the Supplementary Welfare Allowance Scheme.Mortgage Interest Supplement
    Mortgage Interest Supplement is a payment made by the Department of Social Protection. It provides short-term support to help you pay your mortgage interest repayments.Calculating Mortgage Interest Supplement
    Shows you how to calculate Mortgage Interest Supplement.Rent Supplement
    People receiving a social welfare payment may qualify for rent supplement to ensure that after paying rent their income does not fall below a minimum level.Calculating Rent Supplement
    Shows you the steps involved in calculating your Rent Supplement.Back to School Clothing and Footwear Allowance
    The Back to School Clothing and Footwear Allowance is paid each year to families on certain social welfare and other benefits. The scheme helps families with the cost of sending children back to school.
    This document is in: Social Welfare > Social welfare payments > Families and childrenHumanitarian Assistance Scheme
    This scheme provides emergency financial assistance to households who are not in a position to meet costs for essential needs immediately after flooding.Rent Supplement and changes to your circumstances
    If your circumstances change while you are getting Rent Supplement you may have your payment reduced or you may no longer be eligible for it. This document outlines what happens to your Rent Supplement payment in some common situations.

    Extra Benefits

    Free Travel in Ireland
    Everyone aged 66 and over living permanently in Ireland is entitled to travel free of charge on public transport. Others on certain social welfare payments also share this entitlement. Find out more about free travel in Ireland and the Senior SmartPass which allows you to travel for free on public transport in Northern Ireland.
    Social welfare payments and living on a specified island
    If you are getting a certain social welfare payment and living on a specified island off the coast of Ireland you can get an increase in your social welfare payment .Household Benefits Package
    This document describes the Household Benefits Package, which incorporates the Electricity Allowance, Natural Gas Allowance, Electricity (Group Account) Allowance, Bottled Gas Refill Allowance, Telephone Allowance and the Free Television Licence.Living Alone Increase
    The Living Alone Increase is a supplementary payment for people on social welfare pensions who are living alone.
    Fuel Allowance
    The National Fuel Scheme provides an allowance to low-income households that are unable to meet their heating needs.


    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...fare_payments/

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    As you can see the world of Welfare is in fact quite a minefield. If you yourself are not in receipt on some sort of welfare payment there is a big chance someone you know or are related too are claiming something.

    It would be unfair and silly to make a statement that welfare should be cut without actually saying what part of welfare you would like to see cut.

    Most people will say that the unemployment benefits should be cut or reduced the longer you are in receipt of the payment. Again have they considered what they are saying?

    Ireland went bust in 2007/08; employment collapsed and hasn’t returned in such large numbers since.




    Employment has also fallen over the years, employment is the total number of job in Ireland.

    Total in Employment
    2005 - 1,944.6
    2006 - 2,034.9
    2007 - 2,113.9
    2008 - 2,112.8
    2009 -
    1,938.5

    2010 -
    1,859.1

    201 1- 1,821.3
    2012- 1,787.9

    As the table above shows in 2005 Ireland had 1,944.6 people at working, in 2012 we have 1,787.9 working.


    Total Labour Force
    2005 - 2,040.4
    2006- 2,132.8
    2007 - 2,217.0
    2008 - 2,239.6
    2009 - 2,203.1
    2010 - 2,152.7
    2011 - 2,125.9
    2012 - 2,096.4

    Whilst many young Irish continue to leave looking for work elsewhere the labour force table above shows clearly that today in 2012 we have a larger labour force than we had in 2005 when we had low unemployment.

    Total Unemployed
    2005- 95.8
    2006 - 97.9
    2007 - 103.1
    2008 - 126.7
    2009 - 264.6
    2010 - 293.6
    2011 - 304.5
    2012 - 308.5


    In 2005 we had just under 95,000 people claiming unemployment whilst in 2012 we have over 300,000 claiming unemployment.

    Population 15 Years & Over
    2005 - 3,287.9
    2006 - 3,376.1
    2007 - 3,462.5
    2008 - 3,514.9
    2009 - 3,523.8
    2010 - 3,512.4
    2011 - 3,502.7
    2012 - 3,486.2


    Despite record numbers of Irish people leaving to look for work our population over the age of 15 is still higher than it was in 2005.

    The above figures can be obtained from the CSO website or click the link.



    Irish Politics, Current Affairs and Magazine Archive - Politico.ie | Grim gets grimmer

    The above table also shows that full time employment is falling, more and more jobs that are being created are part time positions which are causing more people to rely on welfare payments to top up their weekly income.


    So let’s look at the basics of welfare.

    The vast majority of people on full welfare today are those who were working in the good times and providing for themselves and their families.

    It’s obvious that there are no jobs for them to take up but yet they have all the same overheads as when they were working.

    Sure they can cut back on luxury items such as Sky and holidays but when you come to hard fact they would have already cut out on that sort of thing already.

    How much do you cut them by?


    Part time working has boomed because there simply isn’t full time employment any longer, those who take up part time employment also rely on welfare to top up their weekly payments to survive.

    How much do you want to cut them by?

    We also need to accept that every cut we make to those on unemployment benefits we are taking directly out of the Irish economy because every cent those on unemployment receive is spent back in the Irish economy.


    Next time you choose to attack those on welfare consider this.

    Who do you want to cut on welfare and by how much?
    Last edited by Neutron; 28th November 2012 at 05:24 PM.

  4. #4
    Politics.ie Member ruserious's Avatar
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    Information Overload


    I think it is time OAP's started to take a hit.
    Boycott the "Irish" Sun rag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruserious View Post
    Information Overload


    I think it is time OAP's started to take a hit.
    I fully agree, they havent taken any direct hits in basic welfare paments since this the collapse of the irish Economy.

    I didnt even know we pay €2,500 to people who make it to 100!

    The idea of this thread is to simply show people that when blunt statements such as cut those on welfare is branded about they should simply consider what they are saying and look at welfare in general and say who should be cut and by how much.

    I have also provided hard proof that the jobs are simply not there, so no matter what idiots like Sean Murphy on Primetime say about reducing dole payments to force people back to work people can clearly see there are no jobs. in fact the number of jobs in Ireland is falling and full time emploment is falling the most.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruserious View Post
    Information Overload

    I think it is time OAP's started to take a hit.
    Its neutron, very annoying, unintelligent....etc....but killing him is a bit harse...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob3367 View Post
    Its neutron, very annoying, unintelligent....etc....but killing him is a bit harse...
    Is that the best you have to offer?

    I have provided evidence to support my statement and proof of the falling employment levels within Ireland to stop idiots like you claiming that those on the dole are simply spongers and should be forced back to work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neutron View Post
    Is that the best you have to offer?

    I have provided evidence to support my statement and proof of the falling employment levels within Ireland to stop idiots like you claiming that those on the dole are simply spongers and should be forced back to work.
    You really need to re-read the above, "forced back to work", are you advocating that they be allowed to stay on welfare forever?

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    employment
    (but the state is too busy making it difficult for small businesses to employ people, or even to stay operating, for that to happen).
    Coveney's ambition is the be Ireland's next EU Commissar and Ireland will pay a price as he builds his CV to position himself sufficiently loyal to the nEU empire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob3367 View Post
    You really need to re-read the above, "forced back to work", are you advocating that they be allowed to stay on welfare forever?
    If you had bothered to read any of my post you would be clear in what I was saying.

    Employment in Ireland has been falling since the crash, no matter how many jobs this government announce the total number of jobs in Ireland falls year on year.

    The number of part time jobs is increasing thus most people taking up these jobs are still in receipt off welfare payments.

    Our population continues to be higher than it was in 2005 so the burden of welfare continues to grow.

    Idiots like you appear to think we have countless number of jobs for those on unemploment benefits to take up, the evidence and facts show there are no jobs for them to take up and until such time they will remain on the dole or in receipt of welfare support.

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