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Thread: Why is the standard of Irish politician so...... Appalling????

  1. #1
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    Default Why is the standard of Irish politician so...... Appalling????

    got the idea from someone posting "People might not think it now but Cowen will go down in history as possibly the best Taoiseach after De Velera and Lemass."

    WTF

    now i did laugh, but in retrospect we are renowned for electing muppets







    Bertie got elected promising to keep people buying houses and telling others to commit suicide (some people still believe his horse/no bank story)

    kenny got elected on "change" (helped that FF=toilet at time) and we all know how much has "changed" (maybe a swhing word borrowed from US campaign)

    So if it's a fact that senior advisers have guided successive governments, does that in itself make our politicians even WORSE?? ie they see what's fecked up in opposition but eventually get advised into the status quo once holding office

    Why/how do such low caliber individuals climb to the top of political parties?

    reilly, lendahand(s), gormless, any ahern, harney, varadkar, clowen, kenny, mehole, anyone from clare, all the flynn family, noonan, even gilmore jumped on the cronytrain

    The list is endless

    throw in wallace, any healy rae, and lowry, and even the independents don't avoid the muppet box

    and now with FF at 22% the next election looks even worse

    can irish democracy be weighted so heavily against attracting intelligent candidates into it's political system?
    Last edited by kellboy; 28th November 2012 at 08:00 AM.

  2. #2
    Ramps
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    The caliber of politician is not the problem. This idea that ALL politicians are bumbling idiots is just silly. The problem is that we live in a world in which the idea has developed that people need politicians to do things for them, to make things happen, as though politicians have some insight or wisdom that is lacking in the ordinary citizen. Look at the US now, for example.

    If youre hoping for a time that will be characterised by the emergence of a great generation of politicians, you'll be sorely disappointed

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramps View Post
    The caliber of politician is not the problem. This idea that ALL politicians are bumbling idiots is just silly. The problem is that we live in a world in which the idea has developed that people need politicians to do things for them, to make things happen, as though politicians have some insight or wisdom that is lacking in the ordinary citizen. Look at the US now, for example.

    If youre hoping for a time that will be characterised by the emergence of a great generation of politicians, you'll be sorely disappointed
    never suggested that.... we seem to have above the odds of bumbling idiots leading our ministries tho

  4. #4
    Ramps
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    Quote Originally Posted by kellboy View Post
    never suggested that.... we seem to have above the odds of bumbling idiots leading our ministries tho
    Doesn't almost every voter in every country feel that way, though?!

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    I blame the press and the electorate and the party system.

    I know a number of people with the skills, knowledge and experience that beleive would make them excellent politicans and people to lead the country.

    None of them would dream fo politics, they dont want their and their families private lives invaded, they dont tell people what they want to hear they tell people what is actually happenening and what they need to hear, that makes them unelectable, Their backgrounds (the very reason that makes them qualified for the role) would make htem unelectable, the party system means that they would never get a chance to be elected and the people dont liek beign told the truth, they preffer empty promises of an easy way out and how its all someone elses fault.

  6. #6
    simeongrimes
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    Democracy is government by people who are good at winning elections. It's a peculiar skill and not necessarily related to ability to govern or legislate.

    That's why I'm a strong supporter of term limits. I don't believe membership of the Dail should be a life-long career. Two terms and back to your real job.

    But I would allow appointment to the cabinet from outside the Dail so a real talent could still be a minister even if they had done their two terms.

  7. #7
    Ramps
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    Quote Originally Posted by simeongrimes View Post
    Democracy is government by people who are good at winning elections. It's a peculiar skill and not necessarily related to ability to govern or legislate.

    That's why I'm a strong supporter of term limits. I don't believe membership of the Dail should be a life-long career. Two terms and back to your real job.

    But I would allow appointment to the cabinet from outside the Dail so a real talent could still be a minister even if they had done their two terms.
    But what's the point of imposing term limits then?

    How many seats in Cabinet would you leave for those who have not been elected? Out of 15, say

  8. #8
    simeongrimes
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    The point would be to move on the people who have a talent for getting elected through constituency grunt work but don't have any real contribution to make nationally. I would not limit the number of outside ministers. I would even allow the election of a Taoiseach from outside the Dail.

    100 TDs would be plenty too.

  9. #9
    Ramps
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    Quote Originally Posted by simeongrimes View Post
    The point would be to move on the people who have a talent for getting elected through constituency grunt work but don't have any real contribution to make nationally. I would not limit the number of outside ministers. I would even allow the election of a Taoiseach from outside the Dail.

    100 TDs would be plenty too.
    So you'd have no problem with having a govt. composed entirely of unelected men and women? OK.

    How would govt. be held accountable? By the people sitting in parliament whom you don't even trust enough to let stand for election more than twice and who you feel are better suited to "local" politics rather than national.

    Can you imagine what would happen? Within about 1 week you would have every group, party, and institution giving out yards about unelected executives, who know nothing about how the voters feel, doing what they like, accountable only to a bunch of inexperienced and incompetent backbenchers.

  10. #10
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    The common link to our 'missing link' type idiot politicians seems to be membership of the GAA mafia!

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