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Thread: FG divided over legislating for X Case

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    Politics.ie Member borntorum's Avatar
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    Default FG divided over legislating for X Case

    I know this is another abortion thread, but its purpose is not to discuss the issue per se, but rather the political impact on the leading party in government, so I'd ask that it be allowed stay on its own.

    According to the Irish Independent, Fine Gael is 'tearing itself apart' over proposals to legislate to allow for the risk of suicide as a grounds for an abortion. The report states:

    Fine Gael sources say there are up to 20 TDs in the party who would have reservations about where the line is drawn on granting permission for an abortion.

    although it's not clear what that means. Are 20 TDs opposed to legislating for X? Are 20 TDs likely to vote against the government? The report also states that Kenny's decision that TDs won't have a free vote is causing difficulties within the FG PP.

    Does FG wish now that it had supported the 2002 referendum? The party was led at the time by Michael Noonan, who was trying to impress the Irish Times by labelling himself a social democrat, and IIRC FG officially opposed the FF/PD proposed amendment on the basis that it excluded suicide. However, FG was split ten years ago as well, with leading figures like John Bruton supporting the government and even some members and supporters reportedly opposing it for the same reasons as Youth Defence and Dana, i.e. that it wasn't anti-abortion enough. At the time FG gave the government a bloody nose, although it had no impact at all on the next General Election. Do FGers wish that they had let the previous government deal with the problem, so that they don't have to now?

    Fine Gael tearing itself apart over abortion law - National News - Independent.ie

    /MOD/ This thread merged here: http://www.politics.ie/forum/current...statement.html /MOD/
    Last edited by Sync; 28th November 2012 at 11:22 AM.

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    Another abortion thread which will attract all the usual suspects with the the same opinions all over again! I guess some people's obsessions can't be helped!

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    This will split most parties to a greater or lesser extent.

    I will predict that FG will make a dogs dinner of the legislation and will get a kicking over it.

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    fg need to stand up to labour on abortion and if 20 fg tds are prepared to defy kenny, well kenny is hardly going to expel 20 fg tds from the parliamentary party.

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    FG divided on whether it should continue to ignore what the Supreme Court has said, and what the people have said.

    FG divided on whether it should continue to subvert the will of the people.

    Forget the fact this is about abortion; are there other areas where we think it is ok for FG to ignore the will of the people and the clear message from our Supreme Court?
    I have no money, but I love my life.

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    Politics.ie Member sic transit's Avatar
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    Oddly enough I don't think they will because this is something that will be referred out to the Dail and we can expect plenty of amendments for any proposed legislation. Ultimately there will be enough cross-party support for this to go through.
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self." Ernest Hemingway

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    Politics.ie Member Casualbets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by borntorum View Post
    I know this is another abortion thread, but its purpose is not to discuss the issue per se, but rather the political impact on the leading party in government, so I'd ask that it be allowed stay on its own.

    According to the Irish Independent, Fine Gael is 'tearing itself apart' over proposals to legislate to allow for the risk of suicide as a grounds for an abortion. The report states:



    although it's not clear what that means. Are 20 TDs opposed to legislating for X? Are 20 TDs likely to vote against the government? The report also states that Kenny's decision that TDs won't have a free vote is causing difficulties within the FG PP.

    Does FG wish now that it had supported the 2002 referendum? The party was led at the time by Michael Noonan, who was trying to impress the Irish Times by labelling himself a social democrat, and IIRC FG officially opposed the FF/PD proposed amendment on the basis that it excluded suicide. However, FG was split ten years ago as well, with leading figures like John Bruton supporting the government and even some members and supporters reportedly opposing it for the same reasons as Youth Defence and Dana, i.e. that it wasn't anti-abortion enough. At the time FG gave the government a bloody nose, although it had no impact at all on the next General Election. Do FGers wish that they had let the previous government deal with the problem, so that they don't have to now?

    Fine Gael tearing itself apart over abortion law - National News - Independent.ie
    Very good analysis, Borntorum. It was essentially an exercise in branding on behalf of Noonan. And yes, I'd say FG are very sorry they hadn't supported the 2002 referendum - though of course they won't say that.

    I don't think Fine Gael is "tearing itself apart". But I do think that come next autumn - when we are likely to see the legislation, FG will be faced with a major backbench revolt if they tried to include the "suicide grounds" option...

    The most likely result is that we will get clarifying legislation, but with the "suicide grounds" option excluded....

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    Politics.ie Member borntorum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tough Paddy View Post
    Another abortion thread which will attract all the usual suspects with the the same opinions all over again! I guess some people's obsessions can't be helped!
    ...says the first respondent to the OP

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    Politics.ie Member seabhcan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShoutingIsLeadership View Post
    FG divided on whether it should continue to ignore what the Supreme Court has said, and what the people have said.

    FG divided on whether it should continue to subvert the will of the people.

    Forget the fact this is about abortion; are there other areas where we think it is ok for FG to ignore the will of the people and the clear message from our Supreme Court?
    I imagine the 20 TDs are from predominately rural areas where the 'will of the people' is rabidly against abortion.

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    Politics.ie Member Eoin Coir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by borntorum View Post
    I know this is another abortion thread, but its purpose is not to discuss the issue per se, but rather the political impact on the leading party in government, so I'd ask that it be allowed stay on its own.

    According to the Irish Independent, Fine Gael is 'tearing itself apart' over proposals to legislate to allow for the risk of suicide as a grounds for an abortion. The report states:



    although it's not clear what that means. Are 20 TDs opposed to legislating for X? Are 20 TDs likely to vote against the government? The report also states that Kenny's decision that TDs won't have a free vote is causing difficulties within the FG PP.

    Does FG wish now that it had supported the 2002 referendum? The party was led at the time by Michael Noonan, who was trying to impress the Irish Times by labelling himself a social democrat, and IIRC FG officially opposed the FF/PD proposed amendment on the basis that it excluded suicide. However, FG was split ten years ago as well, with leading figures like John Bruton supporting the government and even some members and supporters reportedly opposing it for the same reasons as Youth Defence and Dana, i.e. that it wasn't anti-abortion enough. At the time FG gave the government a bloody nose, although it had no impact at all on the next General Election. Do FGers wish that they had let the previous government deal with the problem, so that they don't have to now?

    Fine Gael tearing itself apart over abortion law - National News - Independent.ie
    You may be correct indeed. In 2002 i thought the ref was reasonable, but left & right combined to defeat it. And as you say it did not help FG in 2002 election, but that was in era of Teflon , Celtic Tiger and country was " awash with money".

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