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Thread: Our ancestors attitudes towards homosexuality.

  1. #1

    Default Our ancestors attitudes towards homosexuality.

    Something which surprised me was that our Gaelic ancestors were, from what is known, very tolerant of homosexuality. This is simply amazing, showing how forward thinking the Celts were back then. I don't know if they were the only ones to be tolerant of homosexuality, but they were certainly in the minority in relation to their attitude towards it.

    That said, the Gaels were always an extremely forward thinking race, treating women with far more equality than was given to them in other cultures.

    Unfortunately, with the arrival of the English (and, to a lesser extent, Christians) came the destruction of our civilisation, and the tolerant attitudes of our ancestors were deemed "uncivilised" and needed to be "modernised" by the superior race that occupied our nation.

    GAELIC CELTIC CULTURE Page1
    "A people without the knowledge of their past history, origin and culture is like a tree without roots" - Marcus Garvey

  2. #2
    Politics.ie Member Little_Korean's Avatar
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    There is also the brief statements by the Roman chroniclers which tell that it was common for
    people of the same gender to share the same bed. This seems to be born out in
    the story of CuChullain, as even these centuries latter, the redactors hand
    aside, there is still told of Cuchullains love for and sharing the bed with
    Ferdiad.
    Depends on the culture in question - in some, sharing a bed with members of the same gender is common enough with no sexual implications. Likewise for warriors on campaign, where sharing a bed for warmth and space would have made sense.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Korean View Post
    Depends on the culture in question - in some, sharing a bed with members of the same gender is common enough with no sexual implications. Likewise for warriors on campaign, where sharing a bed for warmth and space would have made sense.
    True. The sharing of a bed with another man was perfectly fine, which as the link says seemed to have been "born out of Cú Chulainn" who liked sharing his bed with Ferdiad.

    But Brehon Law was also tolerant of homosexual activity as long as those involved were not married.
    "A people without the knowledge of their past history, origin and culture is like a tree without roots" - Marcus Garvey

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    Politics.ie Member Happytolearn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Korean View Post
    Likewise for warriors on campaign, where sharing a bed for warmth and space would have made sense.
    Hot
    I'm a better man now than I was that day

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Happytolearn View Post
    Hot
    Whatever you're into.

    We're tolerant like that
    "A people without the knowledge of their past history, origin and culture is like a tree without roots" - Marcus Garvey

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    Quote Originally Posted by Protestant/Catholic=Irish View Post
    True. The sharing of a bed with another man was perfectly fine, which as the link says seemed to have been "born out of Cú Chulainn" who liked sharing his bed with Ferdiad.

    But Brehon Law was also tolerant of homosexual activity as long as those involved were not married.
    Brehon law was a civil code, it involved private law. An offence was only an offence where someone was injured by it, so it's far from unusual that there would be no law against homosexual activity. The only time it came into play was in divorce cases, when homosexuality could be grounds for divorce, but similarly so was impotence. Attitudes of the Irish church towards homosexuality were considerably less favourable, and various penitentials describe what penance was due for sodomitical acts, though it certainly wasn't a capital offence. Adhamhnán speaks with horror at the instance of a Aid the Black who was apparently attached to a bishop in a carnal way, a son of perdition whose death came about eventually through the threefold death, a particularly ominous occurance. There was a prolification in Ireland of juvenile warrior bands who left their homes on the onset of puberty as a right of passage, for military training in a similar manner (and of a similar origin) to the Spartan agoge. This too could have been a hotbed for sodomy, as it seems those groups tended to transgrees sexual norms or that sexual transgression was part of the right of passage, given their liminal place in society, something that may be reflected in Cú Chulainn's relationship with Fer-dia, as they were supposed to have been trained together as well.
    "Only by applying the most rigorous standards do we pay writing in Irish the supreme compliment of taking it seriously." - Breandán Ó Doibhlín.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riadach View Post
    Brehon law was a civil code, it involved private law. An offence was only an offence where someone was injured by it, so it's far from unusual that there would be no law against homosexual activity. The only time it came into play was in divorce cases, when homosexuality could be grounds for divorce, but similarly so was impotence. Attitudes of the Irish church towards homosexuality were considerably less favourable, and various penitentials describe what penance was due for sodomitical acts, though it certainly wasn't a capital offence. Adhamhnán speaks with horror at the instance of a Aid the Black who was apparently attached to a bishop in a carnal way, a son of perdition whose death came about eventually through the threefold death, a particularly ominous occurance. There was a prolification in Ireland of juvenile warrior bands who left their homes on the onset of puberty as a right of passage, for military training in a similar manner (and of a similar origin) to the Spartan agoge. This too could have been a hotbed for sodomy, as it seems those groups tended to transgrees sexual norms or that sexual transgression was part of the right of passage, given their liminal place in society, something that may be reflected in Cú Chulainn's relationship with Fer-dia, as they were supposed to have been trained together as well.
    So the ancient Greeks weren't the ones with formalised pederasty.

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    Politics.ie Member Happytolearn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protestant/Catholic=Irish View Post
    Whatever you're into.

    We're tolerant like that
    That is also Hot
    I'm a better man now than I was that day

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Happytolearn View Post
    That is also Hot
    That sent a cold shiver through my spine. A very cold shiver...
    "A people without the knowledge of their past history, origin and culture is like a tree without roots" - Marcus Garvey

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    Quote Originally Posted by MariaMcN View Post
    So the ancient Greeks weren't the ones with formalised pederasty.
    It may not have been pederasty as opposed to experimentation. It didn't just begin in Liberal Arts Colleges you know.
    "Only by applying the most rigorous standards do we pay writing in Irish the supreme compliment of taking it seriously." - Breandán Ó Doibhlín.

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