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Thread: OccuP.ie

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Member ruserious's Avatar
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    The Occupy movement is an international protest movement against social and economic inequality, its primary goal being to make the economic structure and power relations in society fairer.

    With this in mind, I have started this thread for those interested in sharing ideas on how to improve Ireland. You will be expected to provide an economic plan (doesn't have to be fully thought through, yet) which will make the economic structure and power relations in society fairer.

    Hopefully, after you make a submission, other posters will critique them and this may, just may, lead to some sound ideas coming from this website.

    My own idea:

    We have a serious problem with the public finances on our hands. Especially in the social welfare department and this cannot continue. I do not want to just cut the dole and other benefits because you are in serious danger of spiraling the situation into furthur despair.
    We need to create a wider gulf between those who work and those who do not. This would hopefully end to a certain extent, the life on benefits claim.
    You do not need to slash benefits in order to do this.
    I suggest that the government create a national plan with ISME so that SME's will get a tax break of some kind in return for raising the mininum wage and numbers employed by them. The tax break will cover this extra cost and a small benefit to the SME's extra to that cost in order to entice them to follow it.
    While we will have lost revenue from the new tax break, the extra money going into employee's pockets will be spent in the economy and more people may get jobs with the SME's also. The extra funding will act as it's own stimulus in the wider economy.
    There would be a wider gulf between those on benefits and those working as a result. This would motivate people to find work, where a national scheme will be in place anyway such as Fás2.0 to help train, upskill and follow through to actually finding jobs.
    Over time, we will be able to reduce the social welfare bill as a result.

    In summation:
    Raise Mininum wage.
    Provide tax breaks for SME's to allow this.
    Create gulf between employed and unemployed.
    Get a motivated unemployed.
    Spin off effects will create more jobs.
    Slowly reduce welfare bill without causing despair.




    I look forward to reading your submissions.
    Boycott the "Irish" Sun rag.

  2. #2
    Politics.ie Member ruserious's Avatar
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    *cough*
    Anyone?
    Boycott the "Irish" Sun rag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruserious View Post
    *cough*
    Anyone?
    have you looked a the Living Wage campaign?
    Living wage campaigners insist: it's not just about the money | Society | The Observer

    Living Wage Campaign | Citizens UK

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    Politics.ie Member The System Works's Avatar
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    These would be among my first steps:

    1. As unemployment is our most immediate priority, I would abolish any barriers to increased employment. That includes the abolition of, among other things, the minimum wage and corporate taxes.

    2. Full legalization of drugs and prostitution. The left can sign up to that one, too.

    3. Leave the EU and join EFTA, regain sovereignty.

    4. Then, proceed to roll back the state ever further; away from education, health, and welfare.
    Last edited by The System Works; 11th November 2012 at 06:31 PM.

  5. #5

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    For a start I would not raise the minimum wage. That would only cause more jobs to be lost, the unskilled would remain unemployable and smaller businesses would struggle with wage costs compared to their larger companies.


    I would reform the social welfare and FAS system. I think the Scandanavian countries have gotten it right, so I would look at adopting their model and run with that for a while.

    Cut back on government, eliminate quangos, reduce foreign aid and NGO spending etc.

    Break all links with both private and public sector unions and vested interest lobbyists.
    ''The tattoo has a profound meaning: the superficiality of modern man’s existence.'' - Theodore Dalrymple

    "Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple." - Woody Guthrie

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    Politics.ie Member ruserious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mossy Heneberry View Post
    For a start I would not raise the minimum wage. That would only cause more jobs to be lost, the unskilled would remain unemployable and smaller businesses would struggle with wage costs compared to their larger companies.

    Did you not read the part about the tax breaks?
    Boycott the "Irish" Sun rag.

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    Politics.ie Member henryhill's Avatar
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    Are you claiming to represent or be aligned with the Occupy movement in some way? Because those ideas diverge wildly from what Occupy has typically proposed.

    In particular, reducing welfare to get people back to work doesn't make any sense when there are no jobs. That proposition makes me think that you're just motivated to rewrite the social contract. If you really wanted to stop moochers who spend a lifetime on welfare (and there are some) the time to do something like that would be when we're near full employment.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruserious View Post
    Did you not read the part about the tax breaks?
    I did but the government would just increase taxes somewhere else.

    Also Occupy do not want equality, they want their own special place at the trough themselves.
    ''The tattoo has a profound meaning: the superficiality of modern man’s existence.'' - Theodore Dalrymple

    "Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple." - Woody Guthrie

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    Politics.ie Member ruserious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by henryhill View Post
    Are you claiming to represent or be aligned with the Occupy movement in some way? Because those ideas diverge wildly from what Occupy has typically proposed.

    In particular, reducing welfare to get people back to work doesn't make any sense when there are no jobs. That proposition makes me think that you're just motivated to rewrite the social contract. If you really wanted to stop moochers who spend a lifetime on welfare (and there are some) the time to do something like that would be when we're near full employment.
    Not alligned at all. I took their broad aim, stated at the top of the OP and made a quirky thread title, where members can discuss ways they would achieve this.
    You would only start reducing welfare once the initial plan started getting results.
    Boycott the "Irish" Sun rag.

  10. #10
    Politics.ie Member ruserious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mossy Heneberry View Post
    I did but the government would just increase taxes somewhere else.

    Also Occupy do not want equality, they want their own special place at the trough themselves.
    Ya, you would raise extra tax by getting more people into the workforce by said tax breaks.
    Boycott the "Irish" Sun rag.

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