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Thread: Is the loose wording of the Childrens Rights Referendum about to undo the Citizenship Referendum?

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    Default Is the loose wording of the Childrens Rights Referendum about to undo the Citizenship Referendum?

    It's been raised as a peripheral issue, but I’ve heard no discussion of the prospect at all, nor any clarification from the government.

    The new article states:

    "The State recognises and affirms the natural and imprescriptible rights of all children and shall, as far as practicable, by its laws protect and vindicate those rights."

    Will the law of unintended consequences that inevitably follows poorly conceived legislation soon require us to accommodate any asylum seeker that arrives as or with a minor?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
    It's been raised as a peripheral issue, but I’ve heard no discussion of the prospect at all, nor any clarification from the government.

    The new article states:

    "The State recognises and affirms the natural and imprescriptible rights of all children and shall, as far as practicable, by its laws protect and vindicate those rights."

    Will the law of unintended consequences that inevitably follows poorly conceived legislation soon require us to accommodate any asylum seeker that arrives as or with a minor?
    And the saga of the FOur Goldmines rolls on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walrusgumble View Post
    Parts of it, clashes and contradicts with Article 41

    Will be a matter for Court Interpretation


    Asylum seekers are not relevant here. It implies that people have a right of residence. But, all the more reason to ensure that they are processed and removed a lot more quickly.
    To my mind the 'imprescriptible rights of all children' is broad enough to encompas asylum seekers, I can't see any judge ruling that they are excluded under the terms of the referendum. This would suggest that it will be impossible to remove or deport any non national minor and probably their parents either due to their imprescriptible right to the care of their parents. The wording smacks of a charter for the Pamela Izevbekhai's of this world.
    Our minister for children Frances Fitzgerald recently refered, rather tellingly, to the referendum as a great move for Irish children and the children of the world. The world indeed. I certiantly can't see Shatter plugging the inevitable loop hole either.

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    If "the natural and imprescriptible rights of all children" means that all babies born here will be entitled automatically to citizenship, that would be good. That's one thing, of many, that is admirable about the USA.

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    just vote YES. Don't get sidetracked by the government screwing-up. This is our referendum and we've been calling for it for 30 years!

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    And so it begins ..........

    Check out the article in today's Irish Times entitled " Rights of the child mean father should not be deported"

    A Nigerian man who “manipulated the asylum system and engaged in egregiously wrongful conduct” won himself a stay on his deportation based on his child's constitutional rights. The Judge also said the applicant had no personal merits that would entitle him to protection, ........

    “There is no question at all but that if one looked at this matter from the perspective of Mr A, his outrageous conduct would have plainly dis-entitled him to any prospect of relief,” Mr Justice Hogan said. "But the court must approach the question from the perspective of the child and seek to ensure that the substance of his constitutional right to the care and company of his parents was upheld."
    The Judge then stopped Mr A’s deportation.

    This man's child appears to have been in Ireland before the Citizenship Referendum.

    Expect more of this. The passage of the children's referendum will now provide a new platform for all the families who arrived after the Citizenship Referendum and who don't actually have an Irish Citizen Child.

    Hmmmmm ........ Let us cast our minds back. In the Citizenship Referendum there was a 59.95% turnout and a 79% vote in favour of the amendment (that's 1.4 million votes)

    .... and .... let's see, on Saturday there were how many people voting in favour ?????

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    The Citizenship Referendum clashed with the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child:
    The child shall.. have ..from birth the right to acquire a nationality ...
    Convention on the Rights of the Child

    We implicitly excluded this condition in the citizenship referendum since there is no requirement to check that a child has the right to acquire a nationality before denying him Irish citizenship.

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    Dearbhail McDonald: A guide to the Children’s Referendum - Analysis, Opinion - Independent.ie

    The reality

    Children's opinions (as per their age and maturity) will be taken into account, subject to rival interests, such as that of their parents.

    Most disputes involving children will, in any event, take place under the guardianship and custody regime. This section is notable for its big omission: it only applies to the above proceedings and does not cover other areas such as asylum cases or disputes involving schools.

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    I emailed a query to the referendum Commission about the position of non irish children here with parents claiming asylum status. I emailed first thing Tues am and 4 days later at 17.41 Friday 9th got the reply below:

    Scope of wording’s reference to children

    The proposed wording refers to “the natural and imprescriptible rights of all children”, which would include all children of residing in Ireland. However, the right to citizenship of any person is covered separately in the Constitution, under Article 9.

    What does it mean?

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    seen on breakingnews.ie earlier the moaning one saying that a a referendum police is required, this was pulled off sharpish.

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