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Thread: FT Editorial on Bankers Pensions: Dublin's shame

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    Default FT Editorial on Bankers Pensions: Dublin's shame

    Alot is mentioned on this site about how the rest of the world views our so called "recovery" and alot has been said of Kenny's Time magazine and his recent "award" for being a good little paddy.
    To add insult to injury he proclaimed he was doing it on my behalf.
    The man is devoid of leadership.

    The apologists should however note this article which appeared in the Financial Times yesterday entitled "Dublin's shame"

    So far, however, the bank directors’ reaction has been underwhelming. One former manager – Eugene Sheehy, who used to run AIB – has said that he will reduce his payments by a fifth – a smaller concession than Mr Goodwin’s. The others have yet to respond publicly. If they had an ounce of shame, they would go at least as far as Mr Goodwin did.

    Mr Sheehy and his colleagues should think long and hard about their response, however. Ireland is a small country; their moral debts are huge. While a pension cut may not be enough to salvage their honour, failure to act will guarantee their status as pariahs.
    Ireland is the laughing stock of the Financial World. The wild west of Finance.
    Anyone remember the traders laughing during Lenihans conference call?
    That wasnt an isolated incident. I know a few people who work in the city and yes we are the laughing stock of the world.

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    Politics.ie Member storybud1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SKELLY View Post
    Alot is mentioned on this site about how the rest of the world views our so called "recovery" and alot has been said of Kenny's Time magazine and his recent "award" for being a good little paddy.
    To add insult to injury he proclaimed he was doing it on my behalf.
    The man is devoid of leadership.

    The apologists should however note this article which appeared in the Financial Times yesterday entitled "Dublin's shame"






    Ireland is the laughing stock of the Financial World. The wild west of Finance.
    Anyone remember the traders laughing during Lenihans conference call?
    That wasnt an isolated incident. I know a few people who work in the city and yes we are the laughing stock of the world.
    Whats this "We" business? the insiders are the robbing us blind, NAMA, politicians, bankers, the usual greedy rats that have been robbing for thousands of years, what we have to be mindful is our raw materials and our potential for growth in the coming decades.

    Traders are just obscene gamblers, they are the last people anyone should listen to for advice.

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    Politics.ie Member odlum's Avatar
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    I read the ft every day and while articles on Ireland are few and far between most are positive about the country's recovery particularly in comparison to our bailout peers. The alphaville blog is also often positive in commentary particularly when it comes to our exports.

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    Quote Originally Posted by odlum View Post
    I read the ft every day and while articles on Ireland are few and far between most are positive about the country's recovery particularly in comparison to our bailout peers. The alphaville blog is also often positive in commentary particularly when it comes to our exports.
    A stagnant economy is hardly an achievement.

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    Politics.ie Member odlum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattarigna View Post
    A stagnant economy is hardly an achievement.

    But Ireland's growth rate, while low, is still more than most European countries. Also Ireland is not in recession contrary to popular belief. It's avoided recession so far this year. If you compare Ireland with Greece or Portugal or Spain (all in deep recession) it's economy is showing a better resilience in key growth areas particularly on the export side. Irish exports are at record highs and that's the key to getting out of this. Ireland is showing a dynamism that the others are not. That is partly due to it's small size but also it has competitive advantages coming through.

    This takes time to filter in to the employment statistics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by odlum View Post
    But Ireland's growth rate, while low, is still more than most European countries. Also Ireland is not in recession contrary to popular belief. It's avoided recession so far this year. If you compare Ireland with Greece or Portugal or Spain (all in deep recession) it's economy is showing a better resilience in key growth areas particularly on the export side. Irish exports are at record highs and that's the key to getting out of this. Ireland is showing a dynamism that the others are not. That is partly due to it's small size but also it has competitive advantages coming through.

    This takes time to filter in to the employment statistics.
    Only a muppet seriously thinks that GDP is an accurate measure of growth into the Republic of Ireland, which is usually the measure for economic growth that used, even though EVERYONE knows that it is inaccurate. Consumer confidence has not improved, and the retail sector is collapsing. It's not as rosey of a picture as some like to paint it. Granted, we are not on the verge of anarchy, but to say that we have "recovered" is extremely premature. If we can even get unemployment down below 14%, then yes, that would be justification to say that we are making a serious comeback. Anything else is triumpism, pure and simple, and it's actually extremely arragant of an attitude to take, when the vast majority of people living in the real world are seeing things get worse, not better. Less than 0.5% of GNP growth and 0.1% decreases of unemployment(more to do with emigration than anything else) is effective stagnation, NOTHING ELSE.
    Last edited by Mattarigna; 9th November 2012 at 04:29 AM.

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    MrFunkyBoogaloo
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    Quote Originally Posted by odlum View Post
    But Ireland's growth rate, while low, is still more than most European countries. Also Ireland is not in recession contrary to popular belief. It's avoided recession so far this year. If you compare Ireland with Greece or Portugal or Spain (all in deep recession) it's economy is showing a better resilience in key growth areas particularly on the export side. Irish exports are at record highs and that's the key to getting out of this. Ireland is showing a dynamism that the others are not. That is partly due to it's small size but also it has competitive advantages coming through.

    This takes time to filter in to the employment statistics.
    GDP is stagnant compared to the last quarter according to the CSO (0.0%).

    How does 0% amount to "growth"?

    Here's a graph to help us along...


    Mind you, I see GNP grew 4.3% which would, at first glance, offer some hope

    But David McNamara of Davy had this to say on the GNP figure...

    GNP jumped a massive 4.3% on the quarter, mainly due to declining factor outflows as multinationals repatriated profits to Ireland. As this could easily unwind in Q3, we cannot infer any upturn in the domestic economy from the GNP rise.
    Tis a good article with some interesting comments.



    Edit: My apologies to the OP for going off-topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFunkyBoogaloo View Post
    GDP is stagnant compared to the last quarter according to the CSO (0.0%).

    How does 0% amount to "growth"?

    Here's a graph to help us along...


    Mind you, I see GNP grew 4.3% which would, at first glance, offer some hope

    But David McNamara of Davy had this to say on the GNP figure...



    Tis a good article with some interesting comments.



    Edit: My apologies to the OP for going off-topic.
    Odlum, care to give us your FF party spin?

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    The country is focked beyond repair. If you're young, get out.

    If you fancy staying and are willing to put up with the shite of the next 10 years, then vote for a fiscally conservative party and no, not FG...I said fiscally conservative small government party....when one arises.

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    Politics.ie Member odlum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattarigna View Post
    Only a muppet seriously thinks that GDP is an accurate measure of growth into the Republic of Ireland, which is usually the measure for economic growth that used, even though EVERYONE knows that it is inaccurate. Consumer confidence has not improved, and the retail sector is collapsing. It's not as rosey of a picture as some like to paint it. Granted, we are not on the verge of anarchy, but to say that we have "recovered" is extremely premature. If we can even get unemployment down below 14%, then yes, that would be justification to say that we are making a serious comeback. Anything else is triumpism, pure and simple, and it's actually extremely arragant of an attitude to take, when the vast majority of people living in the real world are seeing things get worse, not better. Less than 0.5% of GNP growth and 0.1% decreases of unemployment(more to do with emigration than anything else) is effective stagnation, NOTHING ELSE.


    I never mentioned unemployment. I never specifically mentioned GDP either. Mind you I prefer to see it growing than shrinking. I am stating fact that Ireland is doing better than the other peripheral countries. Unemployment will always lag. Like the late 80's - jobless growth but eventually exports filter through and employment rises. Ireland is the only country in the Eurozone where manufacturing output and employment is increasing as the October PMI numbers showed



    On those numbers I have little doubt Ireland has avoided recession in the 3rd quarter.

    And the people that matter - those that will have to give us money in the market see this. That is why Irish government bond yields have fallen below Spain, Italy, Portugal and Greece and Irish credit default swaps are below them as well.

    The way I look at it you can be depressed and one of those "the world is going to end why bother?" types (and there are many of those in this country) or you can take a level headed view of where the country is and it's route out of it. Ireland is doing the right thing (there are some things I would do differently like scrap the CPA for example) - it's a tough slog for some but we will be out of this before the other peripherals and we will be a stronger, more efficient, more competitive, more credible, more mature country after it.
    Last edited by odlum; 9th November 2012 at 05:50 AM.

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