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Thread: ANALYSIS: The US election and Unionists in the "Ulster".

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    Politics.ie Member Figaroni's Avatar
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    Default ANALYSIS: The US election and Unionists in the "Ulster".

    In Ulster, the tribal response of Protestants to their situation means that even modern unionists such as Mike Nesbitt have almost completely failed to attract Catholic support. The historical associations of unionism are so toxic.

    There is one key hope for those Republicans who want to be multi-racial.

    Yesterday’s election exposed a generation gap over culture, with some states passing measures in support of gay marriage and legalising cannabis outright, which would have been unthinkable a few years ago.

    It may be that the Republicans coalesce around opposition to these and other social issues such as abortion, enabling the party to appeal to African Americans and Hispanics who have traditional views on these matters
    .

    This too has echoes in Northern Ireland, where Catholics and Protestants take the same stance on such questions, although in the past it was not enough to bridge the sectarian divide.
    ANALYSIS: Vote trend among whites like tribal Ulster - News - Belfast Newsletter

    Could or would Unionists bridge the sectarian divide in this manner?

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    Politics.ie Member Mickeymac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Figaroni View Post
    ANALYSIS: Vote trend among whites like tribal Ulster - News - Belfast Newsletter

    Could or would Unionists bridge the sectarian divide in this manner?


    I think the events of the past Summer sends out a clear message that unionists are incapable of that sir.

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    Politics.ie Member theloner's Avatar
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    Here's a telling piece to see how far out of touch unionists are, even with their Great British public:

    MP's who voted for war with Iraq

    Roy Beggs (UUP Antrim East)
    David Burnside (UUP Antrim South)
    Gregory Campbell (DUP Londonderry East)
    Nigel Dodds (DUP Belfast North)
    Jeffrey Donaldson (UUP Lagan Valley)
    Lady Sylvia Hermon (UUP Down North)
    The Rev Ian Paisley (DUP Antrim North)
    Mrs Iris Robinson (DUP Strangford)
    Peter Robinson (DUP Belfast East)
    The Rev Martin Smyth (UUP Belfast South)
    David Trimble (UUP Upper Bann)
    'Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness'.

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    Politics.ie Member physicist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Figaroni View Post
    ANALYSIS: Vote trend among whites like tribal Ulster - News - Belfast Newsletter

    Could or would Unionists bridge the sectarian divide in this manner?
    I really don't know what this comment is trying to refer to, would conservative Unionists win political support from conservative Catholics from adopting more conservative attitude, would they lose liberal Unionist vote as a result? Does the reverse apply to Nationalists and winning over liberal Unionist votes?

    Is the Union even a (socially) "conservative" entity? Would a United Ireland be a "liberal" wasteland?

    Even if a conservative Unionist was more appealing to a devote Catholic Nationalist than a Liberal Nationalist on an issue like abortion or gay marriage or euthanasia who might be campaigning for these things, wouldn't it be a mere loan vote or a tactical vote and make no difference to the tribal affiliations people possess?

    Similarly if a Liberal Nationalist voted for a liberal Unionist like Dawn Purvis on these matters? Similarly transfers between conservative elements of Sinn Féin, DUP and SDLP in Foyle, to keep a liberal "neutral" like Eamon McCann out on the abortion issue amongst other things... Yes a number of the DUP transfered to SF as the "lesser evil" in comparison to McCann.

    All votes are tactical, voters are far too individual to find candidates who represent their views wholesale so they have to compromise with the best one, because that candidate will have to compromise to get the best that they can get too.

    I hope people realise that constitutional politics, cultural politics and representative politics do not easily go hand in hand. Neither does the divides between fiscal and social politics fit into easy groups.

    If coalescing around opposition does bridge the sectarian divide, it doesn't necessarily wall it in.

    What this shows is that one of the West's largest democracies cannot do away with tribalism, whether a Democrat or a Republican leads them.
    Last edited by physicist; 8th November 2012 at 07:36 PM.

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    Politics.ie Member physicist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theloner View Post
    Here's a telling piece to see how far out of touch unionists are, even with their Great British public:

    MP's who voted for war with Iraq

    Roy Beggs (UUP Antrim East)
    David Burnside (UUP Antrim South)
    Gregory Campbell (DUP Londonderry East)
    Nigel Dodds (DUP Belfast North)
    Jeffrey Donaldson (UUP Lagan Valley)
    Lady Sylvia Hermon (UUP Down North)
    The Rev Ian Paisley (DUP Antrim North)
    Mrs Iris Robinson (DUP Strangford)
    Peter Robinson (DUP Belfast East)
    The Rev Martin Smyth (UUP Belfast South)
    David Trimble (UUP Upper Bann)
    I'm sorry but didn't the majority of MPs in Britain (and not NI) vote for the same thing?

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    Politics.ie Member theloner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by physicist View Post
    I'm sorry but didn't the majority of MPs in Britain (and not NI) vote for the same thing?
    Your point being?

    Majorities in the UK and Canada believe the war in Iraq is "unjustified" and - in the UK - are critical of their government's support of US policies in Iraq.
    http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/pdfs/20..._july_poll.pdf

    A September 2007 poll conducted by the BBC found that 2/3 of the world's population believed the US should withdraw its forces from Iraq.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6981553.stm

    You did double-check my post and realise I said the 'Great British public', not the war criminals in Westminster?
    Last edited by theloner; 8th November 2012 at 07:39 PM.
    'Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness'.

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    Politics.ie Member between the bridges's Avatar
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    well as a stereotypical uvf supporting willie frazier impressionistic unionist i will be to busy drinking buckfast and urinating on chapels to bridge any divide...dia agus uladh...
    Nec Aspera Terrent..Is Tuaisceart-Éireannach mé. Má tá meas agat ar mo chultúr, beidh meas agam ar do chultúr.

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    Politics.ie Member physicist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theloner View Post
    Your point being?


    Majorities in the UK and Canada believe the war in Iraq is "unjustified" and - in the UK - are critical of their government's support of US policies in Iraq.
    http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/pdfs/20..._july_poll.pdf

    A September 2007 poll conducted by the BBC found that 2/3 of the world's population believed the US should withdraw its forces from Iraq.
    BBC NEWS | Middle East | Most people 'want Iraq pull-out'
    This is political elitism, even if the majority of British and the majority of Unionist opposed the Iraq war the "political elites" in power could vote against them. Democracy doesn't always follow public opinion, when it did Iraq war protesters who wouldn't vote Labour again were just sucked into the Liberal Democrat camp.

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    Politics.ie Member physicist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by between the bridges View Post
    well as a stereotypical uvf supporting willie frazier impressionistic unionist i will be to busy drinking buckfast and urinating on chapels to bridge any divide...dia agus uladh...
    Is that a response to the OT or to theloner?

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    Politics.ie Member Mickeymac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by between the bridges View Post
    well as a stereotypical uvf supporting willie frazier impressionistic unionist i will be to busy drinking buckfast and urinating on chapels to bridge any divide...dia agus uladh...


    Good to see you talking truth for a change pal.

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