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Thread: The Government's handling of special needs education cases.

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    Default The Government's handling of special needs education cases.

    State's Yes agenda geared to rid children of real rights - The Irish Times - Wed, Nov 07, 2012

    When the Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs Bill was released in 2003, our suspicions were confirmed.

    In the proposed law, the State was not going to commit itself to giving children the constitutional rights that they had established beyond a doubt in the courts. Rather, government was blatantly seeking to substitute these real rights for “rights” they could manipulate and control.

    In the Bill, the State took on the role of the parent. It alone would decide what a child needed through experts on its payroll and then decide whether or not the child would get the services called for in their assessment.
    Why does the Government fight tooth-and-nail to avoid contributing to the education of children who have special needs? Many ministers are themselves parents. Have they no conscience?

    The "children's rights" amendment would delete Article 42.5 and would contain the phrase "as far as practicable". That means that the Government is disregarding children who have special needs.
    Last edited by davidcameron; 7th November 2012 at 08:14 PM. Reason: To improve the quality of the OP.

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    Politics.ie Member Half Nelson's Avatar
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    You may want to drop the bit in italics if you want this thread to get off the ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Half Nelson View Post
    You may want to drop the bit in italics if you want this thread to get off the ground.
    Done. Thanks for the advice.

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    Politics.ie Member Half Nelson's Avatar
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    And to complete the picture we have the same type of cross-party, media, academic and State-funded charity cheerleaders to make the whole fraud credible and ensure its success.
    Ouch!

    There is a sneaking suspicion abroad that the reason certain charities are pushing the referendum is because, if passed, it will force the government to allocate funding to 'child welfare charities' and eventually we will see the equivalent of what they have in the UK - a child-welfare industry, constantly needing raw material, by whatever means.

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    Politics.ie Member BlackLion's Avatar
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    Thankfully there is very few special needs kids in Ireland and in turn very little special needs parents. The government cuts their pay cause they are not that many voters and that money will go towards does who could vote for FG/Lab.
    All men dream: but not equally. -T. E. Lawrence

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    I would further argue that Article 42.5 as it stands has has produced more childrens rights than any other article in the Constitution. It also has the potential to establish more rights for children in the future. I contend that the State in it's desire to remove it are engaged in selling a negative as a positive - surely not? See below and decide for yourself.

    The Constitutional Review Group Report in 1996 highlighted how Article 42.5 helped establish that the child is entitled to all of the personal rights identified in Articles 40, 41, 42, 43 & 44.

    "The Supreme Court returned to this issue in In re Article 26 and the Adoption (No 2) Bill 1987 [1989] IR 656. In this reference to the Supreme Court to test the constitutionality of the Bill, the court was required to construe Article 42.5 and in doing so stated that the rights of a child are not limited to those contained in Article 41 and 42 but include the rights referred to in Articles 40, 43 and 44. Articles 40 – 44

    This important statement confirms that the child is entitled to all of the personal rights identified in Article 40."
    http://www.constitution.ie/reports/crg.pdf

    This critique of the amendment and the possible implications of the wording - Gerry Fahey (GerryFahey) on Scribd | Scribd .

    The analysis seems to suggest that it is likely to bring about a fundamental change in Irish society that is much broader in scope than the simplistic children’s ‘rights’ rhetoric of some commentators suggests.

    It also points out that parents are explicitly excluded from taking action against the State even when the State gets it wrong in any individual case arising out of intervention by the State.

    Finally, and anomalously, this clause explicitly excludes proceedings brought against the state from the list of proceedings that are to have the BIC as the paramount consideration. In fact, the state is one of the primary offenders in relation to the welfare of children. This clause seeks to insulate them from litigation that could otherwise be taken
    Last edited by Grey Area; 7th November 2012 at 10:41 PM.
    “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - Christopher Hitchens

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    Politics.ie Member nonpartyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Half Nelson View Post
    Ouch!

    There is a sneaking suspicion abroad that the reason certain charities are pushing the referendum is because, if passed, it will force the government to allocate funding to 'child welfare charities' and eventually we will see the equivalent of what they have in the UK - a child-welfare industry, constantly needing raw material, by whatever means.
    Well we already have a poverty industry, immigration/migrant rights industry, whatever your having yourself industry, so why not ?

    The germans are paying anyway.............

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackLion View Post
    Thankfully there is very few special needs kids in Ireland and in turn very little special needs parents. The government cuts their pay cause they are not that many voters and that money will go towards does who could vote for FG/Lab.
    Child abuse has caused a public outcry since the Brendan Smyth case. Why would cutbacks to services that are provided to special needs children not do the same?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Area View Post
    It also points out that parents are explicitly excluded from taking action against the State even when the State gets it wrong in any individual case arising out of intervention by the State.
    Could the children take legal action when they reach adulthood?

    Could legal action still be taken by parents on the grounds of the right to family life under the European Court of Human Rights?

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    Politics.ie Member tigerben's Avatar
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    Although parents trying to do their best and get their children seen privately , it turns out in the long run a expensive mistake. The schools will only go on assessments from the HSE. Any resource / special needs come from a HSE report in the schools. Any parent that has a private assessment done won't get the resource in or out of school and will have to fund it , themselves. Also going into secondary school a new report has to go forward for resource / special needs for the child, there is no continuation or joined up thinking. The government loves paper work, keeps non front line workers in jobs!

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