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Thread: Being long term unemployed and getting out of it!

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    Default Being long term unemployed and getting out of it!

    For reasons of parental leave I find myself away from my paid employment for an extended number of weeks and am finding it quite an experiment. It is also enlightening and quite scary. Not for me as such as i have something to return to, but for the great many people who have no regular work and get up every morning and perhaps now afternoon with little sense of purpose.

    It does not feel the same as being a student for example as I was young then and had no responsibilities. What truly concerns me is how adult men in particular and some women truly feel about their long term life at home on low income waiting for the means tested meagre pension.

    Many of these people try to establish new roles as carers for example for children with very minor problems often exaggerated or find a meaningless course to fill time. Doomed to waiting on a potential accident insurance claim to give them a lift or calling out the SVP can't do much for self esteem.

    The concern is here that everyday these people spend out of work leaves them more socially isolated with reduced self esteem and seriously deskilled particularly in the area of dealing with the public. This rules out their ability to get jobs in the retail sector or service industry generally leaving only warehouses etc or maybe delivery men roles.

    I feel strongly that in the absence of large scale paid employment being available to a great many people the government should be offering useful advice to people about the importance of not seeing the social welfare as even a good short term option. It may be necessary but it should be strongly recommended that the recently unemployed don't get too fussy and do their best to take whatever jobs they are capable of doing as quickly as possible.

    I am aware of a number of families where courses have been chosen over employment because this is the advice given. I am not sure why any employer would be keen to take on a 40 year old average arts graduate with a bundle of kids who is miserable about his social devaluation when the option of a hungry 23 year old is always going to be available in a very tight labour market.

    Personally I find daily exercise important for getting me out and mixing and keeping some degree of sharpness but again I know a great many long term unemployed who have fallen into the well set trap of sitting in the house out of sight.

    An expansion of the community employment scheme programme to offer roles running and teaching in local homework clubs would surely be useful to many children whilst offering a purpose to those destined to in reality a life on the dole wondering where it all went wrong or indeed slipping onto long term sick with depression.

    What suggestions or advice do you have for those currently long term unemployed with children?
    "I can see that your head has been twisted and fed with worthless foam from the mouth" (Bob Dylan)

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    Politics.ie Member roc_'s Avatar
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    Think of a business idea, then try and make it happen. There are plenty of supports out there along the road. True, depending on temperament, it may be a long road. But you will find a great degree of purpose, and it is a million times better than the soul destroying Fas Training or unpaid Internship options out there.
    “Words are animals, alive with a will of their own”.

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    Politics.ie Member emulator's Avatar
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    I am not sure why any employer would be keen to take on a 40 year old average arts graduate with a bundle of kids who is miserable about his social devaluation when the option of a hungry 23 year old is always going to be available in a very tight labour market.
    Having seen a lot of the 20something graduates these days, I would've said any employer with a bit of cop on would be happy to get the 40something graduate. They have the benefit of being in the workforce for years already and gained plenty of general life experience. The 20something has effectively just left education for the first time. Many don't know their proverbial from their elbow....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooperate for freedom View Post
    For reasons of parental leave I find myself away from my paid employment for an extended number of weeks and am finding it quite an experiment. It is also enlightening and quite scary. Not for me as such as i have something to return to, but for the great many people who have no regular work and get up every morning and perhaps now afternoon with little sense of purpose.

    It does not feel the same as being a student for example as I was young then and had no responsibilities. What truly concerns me is how adult men in particular and some women truly feel about their long term life at home on low income waiting for the means tested meagre pension.

    Many of these people try to establish new roles as carers for example for children with very minor problems often exaggerated or find a meaningless course to fill time. Doomed to waiting on a potential accident insurance claim to give them a lift or calling out the SVP can't do much for self esteem.

    The concern is here that everyday these people spend out of work leaves them more socially isolated with reduced self esteem and seriously deskilled particularly in the area of dealing with the public. This rules out their ability to get jobs in the retail sector or service industry generally leaving only warehouses etc or maybe delivery men roles.

    I feel strongly that in the absence of large scale paid employment being available to a great many people the government should be offering useful advice to people about the importance of not seeing the social welfare as even a good short term option. It may be necessary but it should be strongly recommended that the recently unemployed don't get too fussy and do their best to take whatever jobs they are capable of doing as quickly as possible.

    I am aware of a number of families where courses have been chosen over employment because this is the advice given. I am not sure why any employer would be keen to take on a 40 year old average arts graduate with a bundle of kids who is miserable about his social devaluation when the option of a hungry 23 year old is always going to be available in a very tight labour market.

    Personally I find daily exercise important for getting me out and mixing and keeping some degree of sharpness but again I know a great many long term unemployed who have fallen into the well set trap of sitting in the house out of sight.

    An expansion of the community employment scheme programme to offer roles running and teaching in local homework clubs would surely be useful to many children whilst offering a purpose to those destined to in reality a life on the dole wondering where it all went wrong or indeed slipping onto long term sick with depression.

    What suggestions or advice do you have for those currently long term unemployed with children?

    The main problem with being unemployed is having no money, or very little money.

    The other things you mention which I have bolded--losing sharpness, sitting in the house, becoming isolated, problem filling time--depend on personality and circumstance

    Paid work is not the be-all and end-all of life for many people, and if their financial circumstances allowed it they would stay at home.

    They do not necessarily depend on their workplace for company, purpose, or self-esteem. Indeed the workplace may be the locus of bullying, negative self-image, unhappiness. They may feel that they are a wage slave as precious days pass, never to return

    These people may have friends, family, hobbies, children. They might like to play a sport, exercise, cook, pursue a hobby, learn to play an instrument, talk to their neighbours, spend time with children or family, do further study, garden, write, make music. Work may render them too exhausted or too time-poor to do these things

    "Sitting in the house" may suit some people. Not all jobs require you to "meet the public". A creative writer or a computer geek (whatever their job is called) might benefit from isolation and time to reflect or to think up new ideas

    The point I am trying to make is that UNEMPLOYMENT IS BAD. Because without work one is POOR. But a sense of self-esteem or purpose in life can come from other things than paid employment

    I also fear that this "you're better off doing something rather than sitting at home" might lead to the work-for-nothing conclusion..."you're better off working for nothing for me, than sitting at home"

    The entire discourse around work/unemployment seems to presume that all work is fantastic and fulfilling, and that without it people are isolated, unhappy, unable to fill the time, lack purpose...

    That may be true for some, but not all. It is the lack of money that is the problem when you are unemployed.....

    Good and timely OP by the way...

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    Politics.ie Member seanmacc's Avatar
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    I'd say get your self out there. Despite the national depression in the labour market there is loads of work out there despite what the media and a lot of people would have you believe. The thing is that there is a load of employers with vacancies but are not advertising just because of the fact they do not want to sift through the hundreds of applications they are going to get in the door. Keep banging the CV's out there to everyone even if there's no job advertised. If there is a job advertised don't be afraid to think outside the box like this individual: On the job hunt: Paddy Power « Rowan Gallagher

    Good Luck

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    Politics.ie Member greengoose2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanmacc View Post
    I'd say get your self out there. Despite the national depression in the labour market there is loads of work out there despite what the media and a lot of people would have you believe. The thing is that there is a load of employers with vacancies but are not advertising just because of the fact they do not want to sift through the hundreds of applications they are going to get in the door. Keep banging the CV's out there to everyone even if there's no job advertised. If there is a job advertised don't be afraid to think outside the box like this individual: On the job hunt: Paddy Power « Rowan Gallagher

    Good Luck
    This is Ireland not the mythical Utopia! However, here's an idea, based on your missive, that you could use. Set yourself up a website business matching up these couldn't be arsed employers to the poor souls who bang out CVs and you will outdo even the great Bill Gates!

    If an employer has a vacancy it stands to reason he requires personnel to fill same. God help us for even reading your silly stuff!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gatsbygirl20 View Post
    The main problem with being unemployed is having no money, or very little money.

    The other things you mention which I have bolded--losing sharpness, sitting in the house, becoming isolated, problem filling time--depend on personality and circumstance

    Paid work is not the be-all and end-all of life for many people, and if their financial circumstances allowed it they would stay at home.

    They do not necessarily depend on their workplace for company, purpose, or self-esteem. Indeed the workplace may be the locus of bullying, negative self-image, unhappiness. They may feel that they are a wage slave as precious days pass, never to return

    These people may have friends, family, hobbies, children. They might like to play a sport, exercise, cook, pursue a hobby, learn to play an instrument, talk to their neighbours, spend time with children or family, do further study, garden, write, make music. Work may render them too exhausted or too time-poor to do these things

    "Sitting in the house" may suit some people. Not all jobs require you to "meet the public". A creative writer or a computer geek (whatever their job is called) might benefit from isolation and time to reflect or to think up new ideas

    The point I am trying to make is that UNEMPLOYMENT IS BAD. Because without work one is POOR. But a sense of self-esteem or purpose in life can come from other things than paid employment

    I also fear that this "you're better off doing something rather than sitting at home" might lead to the work-for-nothing conclusion..."you're better off working for nothing for me, than sitting at home"

    The entire discourse around work/unemployment seems to presume that all work is fantastic and fulfilling, and that without it people are isolated, unhappy, unable to fill the time, lack purpose...

    That may be true for some, but not all. It is the lack of money that is the problem when you are unemployed.....

    Good and timely OP by the way...
    But how do you solve the lack of money problem without getting a job? Waiting on claim, asking relatives, SVP etc will reduce self esteem surely thus making a job even more difficult to attain. The big hope is winning money and the reason why the lotto is a poor man's tax.
    "I can see that your head has been twisted and fed with worthless foam from the mouth" (Bob Dylan)

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    Politics.ie Member Burnout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emulator View Post
    Having seen a lot of the 20something graduates these days, I would've said any employer with a bit of cop on would be happy to get the 40something graduate. They have the benefit of being in the workforce for years already and gained plenty of general life experience. The 20something has effectively just left education for the first time. Many don't know their proverbial from their elbow....

    ....young graduate required with 30yrs experience scenario.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seanmacc View Post
    I'd say get your self out there. Despite the national depression in the labour market there is loads of work out there despite what the media and a lot of people would have you believe. The thing is that there is a load of employers with vacancies but are not advertising just because of the fact they do not want to sift through the hundreds of applications they are going to get in the door. Keep banging the CV's out there to everyone even if there's no job advertised. If there is a job advertised don't be afraid to think outside the box like this individual: On the job hunt: Paddy Power « Rowan Gallagher

    Good Luck
    4000 people in Derry applied for 17 jobs recently

    .. SBS Dateline | Rough Justice .. SBS Dateline

    14 Aug 2012 – There are like 4,000 people

    The majority of people in Northern Ireland want peace but in these areas of Derry I have found a growing sentiment that the Sinn Fein Peace Process is not delivering economic process nor the united Ireland that many Republicans seek.

    TOM MCCOURT: As a Republican I want a 32 County Socialist Republic, am I going to get it through this Peace Process – I don’t think so. Instead you have an economic crisis. So, what better prospects? Friggin’ half the country’s unemployed. There are like 4,000 people…. I think over 4,000 people applied for 17 jobs last week in Derry. 17 friggin’ jobs with 4000 people applying for them. That’s the economic crisis we’re in. There’s a growth in anti-social behaviour. There is a growth in drug abuse. Young kids have lost hope.

    Unemployment stands at 52% where I live in Dublin..

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    I lost my business 30 months ago, due the recession.

    I haven't been able to find work in my region that suits my qualifications - despite being very well qualified. I notice quite a few employers looking for IT qualifications (I have an MSc and years of IT experience at a senior level) but they want qualifications 'less than 3 years old."

    I am currently on a training course that is way below my educational level, but it is legally necessary for the type of work that is available locally. It is in the back of my mind that I might not be employed again. I am 49. I need to get a job as I have work I want to do on the house, and €188/wk is not enough to run a car and maintain a house, and feed yourself.

    I have loads of hobbies, and I am very fit - especially since the business folded. While that was traumatic at the time it was the best thing to have happened to me in a long time. I am lucky that during the celtic tiger madness I cleared my private debts and so I have no mortgage or other debts to worry about. So I have no incentive to sell my house and move to a more job-rich area, I love it where I am.

    Quite a few of the lads in the gym are unemployed and I think it would be money well spent for the state to subsidize gym membership as it keeps young lads off the streets, gives them a healthy focus, builds character and is very positive for mental and physical and social health.

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