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Thread: Are INTO etc playing a dangerous game?

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    Default Are INTO etc playing a dangerous game?

    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&...VFb0UlqXFF8wrg

    Teachers protesting about lack of equal pay for new entrants today. Understandable in a way but do they really think that
    the state can afford to restore the levels previously paid? Would they like to see public reaction if home help for elderly was entirely abolished for the elderly in order to fund this?
    Presumably they understand and realise that the government had to do this (lower pay for new entrants) because the Croke Park agreement protects pay of older teachers. If the unions feel so stongly about equality why do their older members not take a cut to bring in a single common scale?

    Are the unions just paying lip service to new entrants and enabling their older members to laugh all the way to the bank as they retire on tax free lump sums of 100,000 and pensions higher than the salary of new entrants?

    Is the new pay really all that bad? New teachers (if in a permanent full-time position which is more common for primary teachers) are still getting several thousand (28k acording to RTE) more than the average graduate starting salary (25k)
    and and have guaranteed increments over their career which are paid regardless of performance.

    Of course some teachers are finding it very hard to get full hours and struggle for years to get a permanent position.

    I do not want this too turn into a teacher bashing thread but I am genuinely perplexed by the inherent risks in this approach.
    Most teachers do a good job, have larger class sizes than a few years ago and many experience on a daily basis some of the awfulness of the economic collapse in terms of social deprivation they encounter.


    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&...pO4APY59nxpLRg

    Common Basic Scales, INTO - Irish National Teachers' Organisation - into.ie

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    Politics.ie Member Prester Jim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by birthday View Post
    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&...VFb0UlqXFF8wrg

    Teachers protesting about lack of equal pay for new entrants today. Understandable in a way but do they really think that
    the state can afford to restore the levels previously paid? Would they like to see public reaction if home help for elderly was entirely abolished for the elderly in order to fund this?
    Presumably they understand and realise that the government had to do this (lower pay for new entrants) because the Croke Park agreement protects pay of older teachers. If the unions feel so stongly about equality why do their older members not take a cut to bring in a single common scale?

    Are the unions just paying lip service to new entrants and enabling their older members to laugh all the way to the bank as they retire on tax free lump sums of €100,000 and pensions higher than the salary of new entrants?

    Is the new pay really all that bad? New teachers (if in a permanent full-time position which is more common for primary teachers) are still getting several thousand (€28k acording to RTE) more than the average graduate starting salary (€25k)
    and and have guaranteed increments over their career which are paid regardless of performance.

    Of course some teachers are finding it very hard to get full hours and struggle for years to get a permanent position.

    I do not want this too turn into a teacher bashing thread but I am genuinely perplexed by the inherent risks in this approach.
    Most teachers do a good job, have larger class sizes than a few years ago and many experience on a daily basis some of the awfulness of the economic collapse in terms of social deprivation they encounter.


    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&...pO4APY59nxpLRg

    Common Basic Scales, INTO - Irish National Teachers' Organisation - into.ie
    As a teacher on the old rate, I would gladly back the idea of equalising the pay scales by cutting all teachers pay by say 3% and rescinding the cut to the new entrants.
    I don't have a mortgage however so I can only speak for myself and the other colleagues who I have discussed this with.
    We have already taken a hefty chunk of a cut but the state is in the sh1tter and I hate the ideaa of inequalities such as these within a profession.
    It should also be noted that the unions didn't agree to these cuts to new entrants; the govt did (as is their wont), teachers are not responsible for the cuts to new entrants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prester Jim View Post
    As a teacher on the old rate, I would gladly back the idea of equalising the pay scales by cutting all teachers pay by say 3% and rescinding the cut to the new entrants.
    I don't have a mortgage however so I can only speak for myself and the other colleagues who I have discussed this with.
    We have already taken a hefty chunk of a cut but the state is in the sh1tter and I hate the ideaa of inequalities such as these within a profession.
    It should also be noted that the unions didn't agree to these cuts to new entrants; the govt did (as is their wont), teachers are not responsible for the cuts to new entrants.
    Retain the same teacher pay budget but allow teachers to vote on how to divide it amongst themselves!

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    Quote Originally Posted by potholedogger View Post
    Retain the same teacher pay budget but allow teachers to vote on how to divide it amongst themselves!
    I would imagine the unions would not want something like that to happen!

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    I am a teacher and at this stage I would happily take a pay cut. I'm sick of all the negative comment.
    My marginal rate is now 54%.
    I could take a 10000 cut ( 20%) and the net cost would be 100 a week. Luckily I don't have a big mortgage so I would just have to cut back 15 euro a day.

    Would that be it then?
    Would people be happy and leave us alone?

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    Would the teachers accept further cuts applied equally over the age profile of the profession?

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    Politics.ie Member gijoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodles View Post
    I am a teacher and at this stage I would happily take a pay cut. I'm sick of all the negative comment.
    My marginal rate is now 54%.
    I could take a 10000 cut ( 20%) and the net cost would be 100 a week. Luckily I don't have a big mortgage so I would just have to cut back 15 euro a day.

    Would that be it then?
    Would people be happy and leave us alone?
    No. We'll be after your holidays after that. petunia

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    Politics.ie Member Spanner Island's Avatar
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    Their union agreed to this.

    Presumably the teachers themselves are still paying their union dues and remain union members.

    Therefore teachers whingeing about this can can go and f*** off with themselves and their hypocrisy...

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodles View Post
    I am a teacher and at this stage I would happily take a pay cut. I'm sick of all the negative comment.
    My marginal rate is now 54%.
    I could take a 10000 cut ( 20%) and the net cost would be 100 a week. Luckily I don't have a big mortgage so I would just have to cut back 15 euro a day.

    Would that be it then?
    Would people be happy and leave us alone?
    I don't think any teacher need take a cut except perhaps those at the top end of the scale.

    What should happen is that salaries should freeze until the rate equals what they would be paid on their point on the new entrant scale.

    Within a few years all teachers would again be on the new scale, without the lower paid among them actually suffering a cut.

    Same should happen across the PS.

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    Politics.ie Member Eoin Coir's Avatar
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    Are teachers worried about children (as they say) or more likely themselves. After all 80% of Education budget goes on salaries,

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