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Thread: 'Apartheid' Mindset Appears to be Alive and Well - Israeli Poll Indicates Support for 'Apartheid' Policies

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    Default 'Apartheid' Mindset Appears to be Alive and Well - Israeli Poll Indicates Support for 'Apartheid' Policies

    It is frequently the case that abuse and ridicule are hurled at those those who ascribe to the State of Israel policies redolent of Apartheid South Africa, a state that was treated as an international pariah. Numerous instances of such knee-jerk attacks on Israel's critics have surfaced on this forum among others.

    It would appear that Apartheidist policies do after all enjoy substantial support among those who bask in their own much trumpeted 'democratic credentials'. Despite the deeply anti-democratic nature of Israeli rule in the territories it controls, Israel's sympathisers and supporters simply will not hear of any allegations that racism may underpin much of Israeli policy across those territories.

    Israeli poll finds majority in favour of 'apartheid' policies | World news | guardian.co.uk

    Three simple requests:

    1. Can we discuss Israeli policies and actions, and not those of all 'usual suspects'. After all, few place the 'usual suspects' on pedestals in the way Israel's supporters do in the case of the object of their affections. Also, and this is significant, the 'usual suspects' are not cosseted, armed and given political cover by the European Union (and its member states), of which we in this state are an integral part.

    2. Please keep it somewhat grown up, and refrain from deeply personal attacks on each other. A bit of bite is to be expected of course, but please avoid the excesses that sometimes dominate discussions of these issues. Attempts by supporters of Israel to derail this discussion down a side track should be avoided at all costs if they occur.

    3. Remember that many Jews in Israel do their absolute utmost to hinder the worst excesses of the IDF, often putting themselves in danger in order to do so, and Jews are to be found throughout many of the international organisations dedicated to bringing justice to Israel/Palestine.

    Is Israel becoming an openly 'Apartheidist' state? Discuss.

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    Maybe it's a poor OP, and if so I put my hand up.

    I'm still surprised that no supporter of Israeli policy has been peeved enough to have a go at an accusation that usually gets attempted short shrift.

    Israeli Apartheid. OK?

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    Some disturbing findings but there are few things worth noting. Most people did not support annexing the West bank in the first place, which may be important to note when it they said that they would not want to give the Palestinians the vote in that case.

    Furthermore the sample size of the survey is on the low side, only 503 interviewees, and the survey does not seem to have been carried out by a neutral organization.
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    Maybe the apartheid supporting attitude of a big chunk of Israelis is just a bridge too far for the Israeli supporters on this site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeacefulViking View Post
    Some disturbing findings but there are few things worth noting. Most people did not support annexing the West bank in the first place, which may be important to note when it they said that they would not want to give the Palestinians the vote in that case.

    Furthermore the sample size of the survey is on the low side, only 503 interviewees, and the survey does not seem to have been carried out by a neutral organization.
    503 people is too small a sample. However attitudes have hardened in recent years.

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    Politics.ie Member former wesleyan's Avatar
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    Could someone please post the rules and regulations of the apartheid regime in South Africa so that we can compare apples with apples ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeacefulViking View Post
    Some disturbing findings but there are few things worth noting. Most people did not support annexing the West bank in the first place, which may be important to note when it they said that they would not want to give the Palestinians the vote in that case.
    48% stated they "opposed annexation". Unfortunately for those who want a closer understanding of the issue, the respondents weren't asked if the opposite outcome was desirable i.e. would they support the return of the settled and closed areas to the Palestinians. I have a feeling there might be a bit more than 48% opposition to that proposal.

    It's also likely that a sizeable portion of that 48% are happy with the status quo. Why the need for annexation when you continue to be able to expropriate land and water and build as densely as you want while restricting non-Jews from almost half of all the territory of the West Bank.

    Furthermore the sample size of the survey is on the low side, only 503 interviewees
    I agree. However, opinion polls in this state are frequently based on sample sizes proportionally similar, and would usually be based on no more than a thousand respondents i.e Red C. I'm unsure as to the statistical likelihood that a poll of a thousand people would be significantly more accurate than one half the size, or if the margin of error would be that much less than the smaller sample.

    and the survey does not seem to have been carried out by a neutral organization.
    The report states: "The poll was conducted by a public opinion firm, Dialog, which interviewed 503 people out of an Israeli Jewish population of just under 6 million".

    I'm not sure what the problem is with the polling firm. Can you throw some light on your assertion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by former wesleyan View Post
    Could someone please post the rules and regulations of the apartheid regime in South Africa so that we can compare apples with apples ?
    The most important one was the allocation or denial of voting rights to people on the basis of their ethnicity. A majority of the Israelis polled appear willing for Israel to embrace such a measure if the increasingly inevitable happens i.e. Israel's conquest of the West Bank save for a few Palestinian 'bantustans'. A majority have expressed other views that would not have been out of place in Apartheid South Africa. That's why this poll is making news around the world.

    Some might attempt a defence of Israel on the premise that Israel is not the same as/is different from Apartheid South Africa, and as it's different then the views of its people simply cannot be compared. Nobody is claiming that it's 'just like South Africa'. However, in some core areas of its policies in the areas within the borders it controls, Israeli policy is becoming ever more shamelessly segregationist. And this poll shows a substantial level of public support for those policies.

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    Politics.ie Member Own Arris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by former wesleyan View Post
    Could someone please post the rules and regulations of the apartheid regime in South Africa so that we can compare apples with apples ?
    Here is a link to the crime of Apartheid as defined by the United Nations General Assembly in 1973 at the height of the apartheid regime in South Africa, and later as defined by by the International Criminal Court in 2002. I hope it shines some light on the attitudes expressed in the poll.

    On 30 November 1973, the United Nations General Assembly opened for signature and ratification the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid.[1] It defined the crime of apartheid as "inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them." ........." apartheid was declared to be a crime against humanity, with a scope that went far beyond South Africa. While the crime of apartheid is most often associated with the racist policies of South Africa after 1948, the term more generally refers to racially based policies in any state."
    The crime of apartheid is defined by the 2002 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court as inhumane acts of a character similar to other crimes against humanity "committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.
    Crime of apartheid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by Own Arris; 24th October 2012 at 12:46 AM. Reason: typo
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    Quote Originally Posted by onlyasking View Post
    The most important one was the allocation or denial of voting rights to people on the basis of their ethnicity. A majority of the Israelis polled appear willing for Israel to embrace such a measure if the increasingly inevitable happens i.e. Israel's conquest of the West Bank save for a few Palestinian 'bantustans'. A majority have expressed other views that would not have been out of place in Apartheid South Africa. That's why this poll is making news around the world.

    Some might attempt a defence of Israel on the premise that Israel is not the same as/is different from Apartheid South Africa, and as it's different then the views of its people simply cannot be compared. Nobody is claiming that it's 'just like South Africa'. However, in some core areas of its policies in the areas within the borders it controls, Israeli policy is becoming ever more shamelessly segregationist. And this poll shows a substantial level of public support for those policies.

    That this poll is making news is not because of its content but because of its wrapping - Gidon Levy wanted it to be echoed throughout the world, and since he is a Haarets "journalist", then he was quoted.

    Add to that some anti-israeli enthusiasts and there you have it - sensational poll.

    In fact it's not different from other polls ordered by leftist figures (in this case the Israeli far left), with the intention to bash Israel. It's quite evident in the way the decided to ask the questions (they never defined the word apartheid to the respondents).



    Something to think about
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