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Thread: Roman Catholic appointed Canon to St Patrickís Cathedral

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    Default Roman Catholic appointed Canon to St Patrickís Cathedral

    For the first time since the Reformation a Roman Catholic priest, Fr Enda McDonagh, has been appointed as a canon to the St Patrickís Cathedral chapter.

    And the ecumenicalism doesnít end there, a former Presbyterian moderator, Dr Ken Newell, was also appointed a canon.

    Canons are selected by the incumbent dean and chapter, and upon appointment they may participate fully in the cathedralís decision-making body on ecclesiastical matters (for the three Fís- finance, furniture and fittings- laypeople are elected to be involved). So now the Church of Irelandís national cathedral will have two members from outside the Church of Irelandís ranks. Surely this is a welcome step. Alongside the community level, there are movements afoot at the physical level as extensive works are planned to emphasis the Cathedralís presence upon the Dublin landscape (see thread).

    Letís just hope they donít move the Guinness brewery as was mooted last month by Diageo. If I could choose one scene that encapsulates Dublinís better side, it would be the garden beside St Patrickís Cathedral when the bells are tolling and there is a strong smell of hops in the air. A clear winterís morning would really finish it off- every sense cries Dublin!

    Anyway, back on topic. Some time ago the Dean of St Patrickís suggested using the cathedral for Roman Catholic masses: an idea shot down hastily by the Roman Catholic Cardinal Desmond Connell. Following that was the occupation of the cathedral by Afghan refugees, a somewhat embarrassing affair for the Church of Ireland and St Patrickís. Finally, is the national cathedral going in the right direction?
    We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the internet, we know this is not true.

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    I don't really see the point. People who want to be Roman Catholic will be Roman Catholic and they have their churches. How many RCs anyway will want a service under the plethora of old Union Jacks in one corner, the portrait of Douglas Hyde in the other, and the Swift expo in between, but without their beloved icons and statues?

    I would prefer to see more involvement of various Protestant communities including immigrant ones. Bring on the Nigerians!

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    Default Re: Roman Catholic appointed Canon to St Patrickís Cathedral

    Quote Originally Posted by St Disibod
    For the first time since the Reformation a Roman Catholic priest, Fr Enda McDonagh, has been appointed as a canon to the St Patrickís Cathedral chapter.

    And the ecumenicalism doesnít end there, a former Presbyterian moderator, Dr Ken Newell, was also appointed a canon.

    Canons are selected by the incumbent dean and chapter, and upon appointment they may participate fully in the cathedralís decision-making body on ecclesiastical matters (for the three Fís- finance, furniture and fittings- laypeople are elected to be involved). So now the Church of Irelandís national cathedral will have two members from outside the Church of Irelandís ranks. Surely this is a welcome step. Alongside the community level, there are movements afoot at the physical level as extensive works are planned to emphasis the Cathedralís presence upon the Dublin landscape (see thread).

    Letís just hope they donít move the Guinness brewery as was mooted last month by Diageo. If I could choose one scene that encapsulates Dublinís better side, it would be the garden beside St Patrickís Cathedral when the bells are tolling and there is a strong smell of hops in the air. A clear winterís morning would really finish it off- every sense cries Dublin!

    Anyway, back on topic. Some time ago the Dean of St Patrickís suggested using the cathedral for Roman Catholic masses: an idea shot down hastily by the Roman Catholic Cardinal Desmond Connell. Following that was the occupation of the cathedral by Afghan refugees, a somewhat embarrassing affair for the Church of Ireland and St Patrickís. Finally, is the national cathedral going in the right direction?
    Given the Catholic Church's appalling record in terms of treatment of historic churches (remember Killarney Cathedral, Monaghan Cathedral, and its gutting of a perfectly preserved 18th century church in Cork, I hope the C of I keep the Catholics away from anything to do with the Cathedral's furnishings. Thankfully neither Christchurch nor St Patrick's was handed back to the Catholic Church. Can you imagine what they would do to the interior, given their behaviour in their own churches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelR
    I don't really see the point. People who want to be Roman Catholic will be Roman Catholic and they have their churches.

    [...]

    I would prefer to see more involvement of various Protestant communities including immigrant ones. Bring on the Nigerians!
    Well now the congregation of St Patrick's will get a sermon from a leading Catholic theologian and a leading Presbyterian ecumenicist twice a year.

    And the Dean used one of the Hugenot commemoration services to argue that the Cathedral should open itself up for use by the newly arrived Christian sects in Ireland. He even suggested the money for this (salaries for clergy etc.) should come out of the Church of Ireland's coppers, at least until they can set themselves up. This is what was done when the Hugenots arrived, and there's the connection.
    We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the internet, we know this is not true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelR
    Bring on the Nigerians!
    You don't know a whole lot about Nigerian culture, do you?
    "Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain

    ďWhen a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.Ē Napolťon Bonaparte

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    Default Re: Roman Catholic appointed Canon to St Patrickís Cathedral

    Quote Originally Posted by Insider2007
    Given the Catholic Church's appalling record in terms of treatment of historic churches (remember Killarney Cathedral, Monaghan Cathedral, and its gutting of a perfectly preserved 18th century church in Cork, I hope the C of I keep the Catholics away from anything to do with the Cathedral's furnishings. Thankfully neither Christchurch nor St Patrick's was handed back to the Catholic Church. Can you imagine what they would do to the interior, given their behaviour in their own churches.
    In any Church of Ireland parish/cathedral, a select vestry looks after the physical/financial side of things. Every layperson on the vestry has to seek re-election within the year. No one would dare sign off on the sort of gaudy work that has been done in some of the Roman Catholic Cathedrals. What the clergy there were thinking is just beyond me. A congregation would simply not allow it, and too right they are.

    Though both St Patrick's and Christ Church Cathedrals were almost entirely re-built during the eighteenth or nineteenth centuries- the former by the Guinness family and the latter by the Roe family (a whiskey business that went bust as a result- or at least the owner bankrupted himself on the project). Who knows, perhaps people grumbled about the modernism of the new designs back then.
    We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the internet, we know this is not true.

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    Default Re: Roman Catholic appointed Canon to St Patrickís Cathedral

    Quote Originally Posted by St Disibod
    Quote Originally Posted by Insider2007
    Given the Catholic Church's appalling record in terms of treatment of historic churches (remember Killarney Cathedral, Monaghan Cathedral, and its gutting of a perfectly preserved 18th century church in Cork, I hope the C of I keep the Catholics away from anything to do with the Cathedral's furnishings. Thankfully neither Christchurch nor St Patrick's was handed back to the Catholic Church. Can you imagine what they would do to the interior, given their behaviour in their own churches.
    In any Church of Ireland parish/cathedral, a select vestry looks after the physical/financial side of things. Every layperson on the vestry has to seek re-election within the year. No one would dare sign off on the sort of gaudy work that has been done in some of the Roman Catholic Cathedrals. What the clergy there were thinking is just beyond me. A congregation would simply not allow it, and too right they are.

    Though both St Patrick's and Christ Church Cathedrals were almost entirely re-built during the eighteenth or nineteenth centuries- the former by the Guinness family and the latter by the Roe family (a whiskey business that went bust as a result- or at least the owner bankrupted himself on the project). Who knows, perhaps people grumbled about the modernism of the new designs back then.
    They weren't modern, though sadly it did mean removing a lot of the genuine old interior to create pseudo-old interiors.

    Only the Irish Catholic Church could do as happened in Killarney: rip out a spectacular Victorian interior designed by the world famous Pugin (of Westminster fame), dump it in a skip, and replace it with substandard 1970s crap. All over Ireland historic interiors in Catholic churches have been raped. In Galway recently, while they (reluctantly) let a spectacularly beautiful reredos survive, they hit it behind a screen that looks like it was bought in Ikea!!!

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    Default Re: Roman Catholic appointed Canon to St Patrickís Cathedral

    Quote Originally Posted by Insider2007
    They weren't modern, though sadly it did mean removing a lot of the genuine old interior to create pseudo-old interiors.
    Surely the ceilings must be higher than they were. I wouldn't have thought fifteenth or sixteenth century Dublin would have buildings as tall as the Cathedrals are today. I could be wrong of course.

    And I do agree with you on the gutting of Catholic churches. It is a shame. In St Patrick's the seat used by King William III is just sitting behind a pillar with just an A4 sheet on it indicating it is anything more than just a seat. Such little tidbits of history would be swept away by the constant change encouraged in Catholic parishes in Ireland.
    We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the internet, we know this is not true.

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    Interesting development. Maybe it is time for a National Cathedral. It is extraordinary the amount of very ancient churches the COI holds. I suppose given the history, that's understandable. A COI friend of mine is deeply uncomfortable with this and would like an official recognition from his Church of the wrongs of the penal times and that the COI would make an important symbolic gesture to The Roman Catholic people of Ireland.

    Surely it's time for the sharing of certain churches around the country?
    'I am Serious, and don't call me Surely...'

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    sorry folks but i think the anglican establishment has had rather more negative impact on the catholic architectural heritage of these islands than a thousand post vatican 2 philistines .
    "Never despair, but if you do, work on in despair"
    "Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little."
    Edmund Burke

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