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Thread: Rent supplement for landlords, yes or no

  1. #11
    Politics.ie Member red-devil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mossy Heneberry View Post
    Could never understand why social welfare recipents receive rent supplement for a house rather than for just a room.

    Get rid of it.
    This thread is about the landlords who are abusing the system and still getting paid with these supplements, people like this think its okay to commit white collar crime, I don't. you?
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  2. #12
    Politics.ie Member red-devil's Avatar
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    Skinner totally agree with your third paragraph, if only we had a goverment with that nerve
    YOU ALONE CAN DO IT, BUT YOU CAN'T DO IT ALONE

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    Politics.ie Member flavirostris's Avatar
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    It's a good example of how FF ran the economy for the benefit of supporters.. not the state.

    Massive amounts of dosh being funnelled from the public purse into the pockets of party supporters.
    "Criticising the EU in Ireland in the 2010's is like criticising the Catholic Church in the 1950s. You run the risk of being lynched by brainwashed fanatics." - Volatire

  4. #14
    Politics.ie Member gerhard dengler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by red-devil View Post
    Thats entirely different point altogether, my problem is the way landlords in their thousands have still not registered their properties, and they shouldn't be allowed to have no money thats not been taxed
    There is a simple solution.

    if these properties have a mortgage, the banks that the State own will have a record of same.
    These records will provide the name of the beneficial owner of said property.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by red-devil View Post
    This thread is about the landlords who are abusing the system and still getting paid with these supplements, people like this think its okay to commit white collar crime, I don't. you?
    And of course the recipients never abuse the system, aye?
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  6. #16
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    I applaud the civil service for having an integrated computer system to identify those who are paid rent supplement and aren't registered with the private residencies tenancy board.
    well done.
    hopefully by using the records of the prtb, nppr, rent supplements, the revenue commisioners can establish and pursue people who are under declaring their rental income.

  7. #17
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    Surely the following should have happened....

    1. a person or family gets rent allowance
    2. the landlord is named and vetted to make sure the property is habitable, and provides PPSN etc.
    3. the Department of Social Protection, or the HSE or whoever provides the RA sends the details of the landlord to the PRTB and Revenue

    Joined up Government my ass.

    Just now it is being sorted. So during the FF years the Departments were giving money out left right and centre to anyone providing accommodation to RA clients, and there were no inter departmental checks?

    I always wondered about the lack of information sharing in relation to a payment that is so easy to track.

    The new administration must be after the FF supporting landlords now!!

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by louis bernard View Post
    Rent allowance is a jokeÖ.single mother one child refuses a local authority house because the private (3 bedroom) house she is in at the moment and receiving rent allowance for is in a much nicer area. Ok so she goes back to the end of the housing list, and thatís where she wants to be. This is a true case I am aware of, I am sure there are many,many more.
    Thats extraordinary. I don't know anybody who has turned down a council house in favour of private rented stock, and I know at least 3 who've been housed over the last few years. The reason why they prefer council housing is because their rent is capped. There is no rent cap to the tenant in private rented accomodation and never will be, the only limitation is how much SWA is willing to pay. Some of these families did take very shoddy council properties and did them up, because the advantage is so much more over private renting.

    Lets summarise for the ignorant, of which there seems to be many:

    Private rented:
    Tenant MUST be on social welfare
    Rent MUST be beneath a threshold (well below average market rents in most areas)
    If rent is above the threshold, tenant is refused ANY payment - i.e. they get nothing
    Cuts in the rent supplement do not oblige landlord to lower rent (a big problem)
    tenant always has to pay first 24 euro of rent, regardless of cash payment (i.e. the family with lots of kids getting a good cash payment pay the same as a single person on lowest rate in a bedsit)
    if tenant gets a job and leaves welfare they lose the entire payment, regardless of how much they earn
    rent is paid 1 month in arrears (1 month behind the norm for collection)
    deposits are generally not covered
    contrary to popular mythology, standards are often appalling, and RA tenants most likely to live in substandard accomodation (which means basicaly slumlike standards)

    Council:
    Tenants generally have to be on welfare to qualify, long waiting lists
    Rent based on income - differential scheme adjust rent if income changes
    no supplements paid by state but welfare tenants have low rates roughly matching the 24 euro paid by private tenants
    level of rent depends on size of income, family and unit size - unlike private rented which maximises benefit to larger families
    if tenant gets a job their rent is adjusted upwards - same if they lose job - cap in place ensures tenants are still paying well below market rate (for example cap in Cork is 400 pm for a 2 bed apartment - less than half going rate for private rents) - this protects low earners
    deposits may not be required
    standards hugely varied - older stock tends to be poor

    The problem is that the rents are still effectively dictated by the landlords, at the expense of both state and tenant. I lived in many places which were mostly RA tenants (I was once the only working tenant in a house of 6 flats), and these places were not only poor standard but relatively expensive because the landlord just started at whatever the most RA would pay and marked up on that.

    Lots of RA tenants are being forced to give backhanders to landlords because they would lose their tenancy if they declared the true rent. This is the result of cuts applying to the tenant and not the landlord.

    Nobody in their right mind would turn down a council tenancy, not with the kind of huge rents and poor private rented housing standards we have today.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by red-devil View Post
    This thread is about the landlords who are abusing the system and still getting paid with these supplements, people like this think its okay to commit white collar crime, I don't. you?
    Actually what was not pointed out on the report was that in addition to the 7,000 landlords getting RA indirectly via their tenants, there are tens of thousands more who rent to self paying tenants and don't both registering for PRTB to save 75 quid. PRTB don't seem to bother chasing them up either.

    What I found astonishing was my last slumlord refused to pay it and would only fill out the PRTB form if I paid the 75 quid. I had to fork out myself, as Cork City Council requires that as a tenant your tenancy is PRTB registered in order to get a parking permit (sep issue but owner occupiers only have to produce 4 documents to get a permit, tenants must produce 10 documents!) Yet there were 11 other flats in the same house not registered (landlady was a real slumlord, the kind who turned landings and pantrys into dark little flats) and obviously PRTB didn't care too much about that.

    7,000 is only a drop in the ocean.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by flavirostris View Post
    It's a good example of how FF ran the economy for the benefit of supporters.. not the state.

    Massive amounts of dosh being funnelled from the public purse into the pockets of party supporters.
    The thread is about landlords registering with the prtb - which is a quango of the type you lot were supposed to be scrapping. Do you know that, as often happens in the current climate with high turnover of tenants, a landlord could end up paying 3/4 separate fees to the prtb in a year? And registering with the prtb has nothing to do with discharging one's tax liability

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