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Thread: British army under french orders.

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    Default British army under french orders.

    I just cant believe it.

    Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: British army under French orders

    How low have the british sunken. And now they have to ask permission to France to defend the Falklands?

    This is just plain ridiculous. How come it is not the other way around? In which way have the french contributed to merit this power grab?

    I also hear that all Harrier jets are to be sold or decommissioned.

    PS: also
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...ce-cooperation

    Argh. Weakness breeds contempt, contempt breeds attack and war.
    Last edited by andrejsv; 2nd November 2010 at 11:29 AM.

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    Politics.ie Member Squire Allworthy's Avatar
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    It is always a mistake to run a military establishment greater than your income can afford.

    If relations between what is now England and France had been sorted out properly between 1000 and 700 years ago Europe would have been a very different place now.

    What is wrong with cooperation? Assuming of course the pair of them can for once agree on a common foreign policy and that relations with the US can be squared.

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    The Daily Express is a pile of middle-English whining toss. There is nothing unusual about this. It's been going on for years. I remember an Army recruitment ad from years ago which made it clear that British troops could come under the command of other nATO officers as 7 when required. It's the logical conclusion of the EC, NATO etc, which the Tories are just as committed to as labour, whatever they say to the party faithful.

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    Politics.ie Member LowIQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrejsv View Post
    I just cant believe it.

    Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: British army under French orders

    How low have the british sunken. And now they have to ask permission to France to defend the Falklands?

    This is just plain ridiculous. How come it is not the other way around? In which way have the french contributed to merit this power grab?

    I also hear that all Harrier jets are to be sold or decommissioned.

    PS: also
    Britain and France to seal defence pact | Politics | The Guardian

    Argh. Weakness breeds contempt, contempt breeds attack and war.
    Get a life.

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    Politics.ie Member Thac0man's Avatar
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    At a few levels this move makes sense for the British and French. The economics are plain to see, expensive carriers will be a shared responsilbity. Both France and the UK are members of NATO, so either way their troops if put into action under NATO are under command of another nation anyway. In actual fact the US maintains the popular belief that its troops are never commanded by non US officers - that is actually untrue, US forces have regularly been under foreign command.

    But I think into the future this will have another facet. A joint UK/French military command will form the kernel of an EU based force. That will also allow the introduction of Germany. In turn such a force would also provide an balancing force within NATO that is currently US dominated.

    Another aspect is of course that the Falklands is British territory. If there were another flare up with Argentina (which is incredably unlikley) the Argentines would be facing the UK and France. That alignment would of course be perfectly natural - Argentina is neither a member of the EU nor NATO.

    This move, if it goes through should be seen not only in terms of consolidating expenditure, but also consolidating territorial boundries and NATO influence.

    I do think the Express is over-the-top in their converage though. Especially this:
    But last night critics branded the plan a betrayal of British military tradition going back centuries to the battles of Waterloo, Trafalgar, Agincourt and Crecy.
    .... little islander stuff to say the least.

    The military reality on the ground has changed. The prospect of a war within the EU has receeded to nil, being reduced to near nothing by the establishment of NATO and reduced further to absolute nothing by the progression of the EU. There has been an expressed desire for a long time now by some major EU powers to act in unison in terms of foreign policy and projection of military. Seems like this proposed arrangement delivers exactly that.

    If this story has one major implication, then perhaps unsprisingly the Express has missed it. It is that his may herald the development of a two tier Europe which we in Ireland will have no choice about joining, we simply won't be asked to partake.

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    what a load of crap - this has been going on for years - get over it.
    The best way to see Faith is to shut the eye of Reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrejsv View Post
    I just cant believe it.

    Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: British army under French orders

    How low have the british sunken. And now they have to ask permission to France to defend the Falklands?

    This is just plain ridiculous. How come it is not the other way around? In which way have the french contributed to merit this power grab?

    I also hear that all Harrier jets are to be sold or decommissioned.

    PS: also
    Britain and France to seal defence pact | Politics | The Guardian

    Argh. Weakness breeds contempt, contempt breeds attack and war.
    Calm down, close the curtains and give yourself 10 minutes of deep breathing. You're reading the F**king Daily Express here, not the New York Times, it's like the the National Enquirer only with the occasional three-syllable word thrown in. All it means is that the Brits and the Frogs have signed a cooperation agreement to share certain capabilities and facilities, mainly concerning the use of submarines and aircraft carriers. It does not alter the sovereign control of each countries assets. It's pretty much what's been going on in a much wider sphere between the Brits and the Yanks for years. France and the UK are both NATO members y'know?

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    Between 1066 and the loss of Calais under the reign of Queen Mary 'Bloody Mary' Tudor, France was part of the realm. The English monarch claimed dominion over France right up until the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries.
    When the Normans during Richard 'Strongbow' De Clare, invaded Ireland in 1172, they spoke French as did the Norman King of England Henry II, the great grandson of William The Conquerer who came from Normany, and ruled much of England, parts of Wales and Scotland and large territories in Northern France.
    The modern English language and modern Gaelige are full of adaptions of Norman French words.
    The French dialect spoken by the Normans was of course also full of Scandinavian words - the Normans were after all the descendents of Norse raiders who settled in Normandy. Scandinavians also invaded England and their customs and language and genes rubbed off on the Gaelic Britons, Romans settlers who stayed on after the fall of their Empire and the Anglo-Saxons.
    Both France and England were once part of a Celtic civilisation which encompassed much of Western Europe before the Roman invasions after which both became heavily Romanised.
    The Germanic Franks (relations of the Anglo-Saxons) conquered Roman Gaul and mixed with the Latin Romans and the Gaelic speaking Gauls and later the Norse.
    So the French and the English races that emerged out of this melting pot share many of the same influences and heritage and genetics.
    It is a mere accident of history that the English rulers fell out with the French - Richard the Lionheart co-operated wit the French King in the invasion of the Holy Land during the Crusades. French knights rode with English knights and German and Italian and Spanish knights against the Turks and Saracens.
    It is significant that the Arabs called the invaders Franks.
    More recently during the Great War, the British and French fought together under French or British command on the Western Front.
    However if history had been different Britain might well have joined with their German cousins against the French - the English Royal Family were literally cousins of the German Kaiser.
    Last edited by niropiro; 2nd November 2010 at 12:33 PM.

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    Politics.ie Member eoghanacht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niropiro View Post
    Between 1066 and the loss of Calais under the reign of Queen Mary 'Bloody Mary' Tudor, France was part of the realm. The English monarch claimed dominion over France right up until the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries.
    When the Normans during Richard 'Strongbow' De Clare, invaded Ireland in 1172, they spoke French as did the Norman King of England Henry II, the great grandson of William The Conquerer who came from Normany, and ruled much of England, parts of Wales and Scotland and large territories in Northern France.
    The modern English language and modern Gaelige are full of adaptions of Norman French words.
    The French dialect spoken by the Normans was of course also full of Scandinavian words - the Normans were after all the descendents of Norse raiders who settled in Normandy. Scandinavians invaded England and their customs and language and genes rubbed off on the Gaelic Britons, Romans settlers who stayed on and the anglo-Saxons.
    Both France and England were once part of a Celtic civilisation which encompassed much of Western Europe before the Roman invasions after which both heavily Romanised.
    The Germanic Franks (relations of the Anglo-Saxons) conquered Gaul and mixed with the Latin Romans and the Gaelic speaking Gauls and the later the Norse.
    So the French and the English share many of the same influences and heritage and genetics.
    It is a mere accident of history that the English rulers fell out with the French - Richard the Lionheart co-operated wit the French King in the invasion of the Holy Land during the Crusades. French knights rode with English knights and German and Italian and Spanish knights against the Turks and Saracens.
    It is significant that the Arabs called the invaders Franks.
    More recently during the Great War, the British and French fought together under French or British command on the Western Front.
    Look at me everybody i know about history!!
    Britain operated death squads - ''97% of the Loyalists I interviewed were working directly for the State.'' - Nuala O'Loan. #FreeAhedTamimi

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    Quote Originally Posted by eoghanacht View Post
    Look at me everybody i know about history!!
    If he thinks the Gauls spoke Gaelic, he really doesn't.

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