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Thread: Yes there is a pot of gold! - worth €121 billion

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    Default Yes there is a pot of gold! - worth €121 billion

    There are many alternatives to the cuts, and yes, there is a goldmine out there. See Tom O'Connor below

    Opinion: Wealthy Irish have

    Figures show 33,000 Irish millionaires still own assets worth
    "
    Figures show 33,000 Irish millionaires still own assets worth €121 billion - Yes there is a pot of gold!

    Date: Tue, 2010-10-26 12:27


    Confirmation that a large amount of wealth remains concentrated in the hands of a tiny number of Irish people has come from an analysis of figures by Tom O’Connor, Lecturer in Economics in Cork Institute of Technology. O’Connor has analysed the figures contained in the Bank of Ireland’s ‘Wealth of the Nation’ report which stated that there were 33,000 millionaires in Ireland in 2006. The total ‘net worth’ of these individuals (i.e. excluding the value of their principal residences and allowing for any borrowings) in 2006 was €156.21 billion.


    This figure of €156.21 billion is further broken down by O’Connor’s analysis to show that they held €112.4 billion in property, €23.4 billion in equities, €4.7 billion in bonds and €15.5 billion in cash.


    By using official figures to estimate what has happened in the intervening years in each of these categories of wealth, O’Connor comes to the conclusion that the current ‘net worth’ of these 33,000 individuals is as follows:-

    • Property (value down by 33% as per ESRI estimates) – now worth €77.4 billion
    • Equities (value down by 6% as per FT100 indices) – now worth €22 billion
    • Bonds (value up approx 10% due to the indebtedness of European governments) – now worth €5.14 billion
    • Cash (using a conservative estimate of a return of 1.5% AER) – now worth €16.5 billion

    Thus, the figures show that these 33,000 millionaires still own wealth of €121 billion.

    Yet Brian Lenihan’s policy, as he and his colleagues prepare to savage what remains of our social services and to attack even further the living standards of the poorest in our society and of ordinary workers, is based on his analysis of last October that “There is no pot of gold that can be raided from the wealthy that can solve our difficulties”.

    It’s clear from these figures however that not alone does the ‘pot of gold’ exist but €16.5 billion of it exists in cold hard cash. This gives the lie to the argument often put forward when a wealth tax is suggested that the wealthy’s assets are ‘not liquid’ and that they wouldn’t be in a position to liquefy them to pay a wealth tax.

    Not alone that but as O’Connor points out in the course of his analysis these 33,000 millionaires were the principal beneficiaries of approx €20 billion in tax reliefs since 2005. And an analysis from Dr Michael Collins, a Trinity based Economist and member of the Commission on taxation, has shown that 110 of these tax reliefs still exist, resulting in €11 billion per annum being lost to the exchequer, principally for the benefit of the most wealthy.

    It’s clear that we are not ‘all in this together’ no matter how many times such nonsense is spewed by politicians. The wealthy are still wealthy. Meanwhile the discussion continues about how much should be cut from the education and health budgets, how the social welfare budget can be slashed, how people on minimum wage can be ‘brought into the tax net’…..

    And the wealthy sit on their wealth. How long are we content to let that happen?
    and then, there's the practical giveaway of our natural resources.

    Dublin Opinion » Blog Archive » GAS VALUED AT

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    Politics.ie Member Sync's Avatar
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    And the wealthy sit on their wealth. How long are we content to let that happen?
    Snigger. I wonder why he thinks any rational person will keep their money in a state which decides to seize legally held assets? Which is clearly what he's suggesting.Utterly ridiculous. You'd cause an immediate run on the banks because only a lunatic would keep their money there.

    If you want to remove tax incentives for people to stay here then fine. Just don't bitch when they move their assets abroad.
    I'm living in America, and in America, you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business. Now f***ing pay me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sync View Post
    If you want to remove tax incentives for people to stay here then fine. Just don't bitch when they move their assets abroad.
    Tax incentives? Surely you mean inequitous massive subisidies from the rest of us?
    The by-and-large, scum that rises to the top of an economy like ours, will find it hard to go anywhere with a more regressive taxation system. This is frequently over-states by defenders of the bankers class such as yourself.

    As O'Connor writes in the article linked above,

    On the basis of the above figures, even if this group paid just a 1% wealth tax, the Irish government could take in €1.2bn in 2011 and every year thereafter. Taxes as high as these already exist in France, Norway and Switzerland and are set to be introduced in several other EU countries in the near future.
    Even a modest 5% tax would prevent the cuts to education, health, social welfare budget, minimum wage etc.

    People should remember the many alternatives to the custs, the next time they read, hear, or watch the mainstream media lie and fail to bring alternatives into the debate.

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    Politics.ie Member rockofcashel's Avatar
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    Theres billions off the coastline in gas and most likely oil as well, but we'll see little enough of that either.. kind of reminds me of how we exported food during the Famine
    1,197 people agree with me.. how many agree with you ?

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    [quote=Pax;3122529]
    Tax incentives? Surely you mean inequitous massive subisidies from the rest of us?
    Refraining from taking even more money from people is not a subsidy. A subsidy is when the government takes money from some people and gives it to others, e.g. from the rich to the poor.
    Last edited by Odyessus; 31st October 2010 at 09:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GJG View Post
    <link to an ad for a typical neoliberal book>
    A typical comment from someone posting with an ad to a typical book stemming from the ideology that is failing and given nice review snippets by none other than, Jim Power, Moore McDowell, Dr Constantin Gurdgiev, etc

    All the economists we should in no way be listening to. Ye're a brass knecked, if grisly crew, I'll give ye that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax View Post
    Even a modest 5% tax would prevent the cuts to education, health, social welfare budget, minimum wage etc.
    "modest"? One euro in every 20 of what someone owns to be taken by the government? It just means that nobody will store any wealth in our economy! Have you studied the history of wealth taxes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Odyessus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pax View Post
    Refraining from taking even more money from people is not a subsidy.
    A subsidy is when the government takes money from some people and gives it to others, i.e. from the rich to the poor.
    Not really. Most economists considered it a subsidy. Which is why at EU level it is a regulated and restricted policy.

    Of course your view helps if you believe the wealthy are deserving of their wealth in the first place. I don't. I'm generally of the view that "property is theft." and profit of the backs of wage-slavery is abhorent.

    Most political economists accept that in capitalist economies the differences in ownership of productive property that accumulate within a single generation due to unequal sacrifices are minuscule compared to the differences in wealth that develop due to inheritance, luck, unfair advantage, and profit-making.

    All evidence about the origins of differential wealth at the end of the twentieth century support the opinion Edward Bellamy voiced (in 1888) in his famous book Looking Backward:

    "You may set it down as a rule that the rich, the possessors of great wealth, had no moral right to it as based upon desert, for either their fortunes belonged to the class of inherited wealth, or else, when accumulated in a lifetime, necessarily represented chiefly the product of others, more or less forcibly or fraudulently obtained. "

    Of course, here we add in redistribution upwards to the tune of giving 33,000 millionaires approx €20 billion in tax reliefs since 2005.

    And an analysis from Dr Michael Collins, a Trinity based Economist and member of the Commission on taxation, has shown that 110 of these tax reliefs still exist, resulting in €11 billion per annum being lost to the exchequer, principally for the benefit of the most wealthy.

    Yet we still have to listen to self-interested mouth pieces for the bankers class tell us we need to cut public services, tax those on average incomes, decrease the minimum wage, take 60,000 euros of each and every one of us by increasing the pension age, 50 cent on medical prescriptions, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockofcashel View Post
    Theres billions off the coastline in gas and most likely oil as well, but we'll see little enough of that either.. kind of reminds me of how we exported food during the Famine
    Not really at all the same situation.

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