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Thread: Ireland compared to Norway

  1. #1

    Default Ireland compared to Norway

    When Norway discovered oil and gas off its coast, it promptly Semi/Nationalized it.
    Bringing in experts from Multinational Oil companies, it founded
    Statoil and used its resources to build it's own economy - Including the revenue earned by Statoil in Ireland.

    Ireland is the only country in the world that gave it's
    Oil/Gas resources away for NOTHING.
    Yes, we will get Corporation Tax similar to that which we
    receive from any Multinational, but the raw resource is given to Shell for nothing.
    The man who signed this economically suicidal agreement?
    Zanu Fianna Fáil's Ray Burke, the only Minister (so far)to be given
    a jail sentence for fraud.

    This so called "governing" of this country is such a sick joke !!!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigris Celtica View Post
    When Norway discovered oil and gas off its coast, it promptly Semi/Nationalized it.
    Bringing in experts from Multinational Oil companies, it founded
    Statoil and used its resources to build it's own economy - Including the revenue earned by Statoil in Ireland.

    Ireland is the only country in the world that gave it's
    Oil/Gas resources away for NOTHING.
    Yes, we will get Corporation Tax similar to that which we
    receive from any Multinational, but the raw resource is given to Shell for nothing.
    The man who signed this economically suicidal agreement?
    Zanu Fianna Fáil's Ray Burke, the only Minister (so far)to be given
    a jail sentence for fraud.

    This so called "governing" of this country is such a sick joke !!!
    Frankly TC in spite of the fact that I completely agree with your sentiments you are wasting your time. It won't be long now before one the horsemen of the kleptocracy is along to throw a few slurs against you along the lines of numpty, tree hugger or the like.

    BTW you can bet your bottom dollar that someone was paid handsomely for their services in this deal. However unless an oil industry insider whistleblower decides to disclose what went on behind the veil of secrecy in the meetings between themselves and a few unsavoury political characters from our past we will never know.

    Maybe someday when we are long gone our grandkids will get to see what secret accounts in the likes of Lichtenstein, our grubby little elite had for the squirrelling away of the loot for their treason.

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    Yes, Burke was a corrupt scoundrel.

    He was found to have been corrupt by the Flood Tribunal and subsequently was sentenced to six months imprisonment for failing to make correct tax returns by failing to disclose monies given to him. I know this does not tell the entire story of Burke's misdeeds as a FF Minister but one has to be careful to avoid any hint of libel with this slimy character who apparently has 'not gone away'.

    I suspect Burke on behalf of the FF/PD Govt concluded a legal contract with Royal Dutch Shell over the exploitation of the Corrib gas field. Such a contract is almost certainly legally binding.

    But going forward there is no reason why more equitable terms cannot be secured in any other/future Irish offshore find/s.

    Problem now is, the economy is bust.......broken by Burke's fellow FF Cabinet 'colleagues'.

    We have no exploration money set aside from the wasted Celtic Tiger years.

    The PPARS (Mary Harney/PDs) debacle and the e-voting machines scandal (Martin Cullen ex-PD/FF) would have provided quarter of a billion Euros to give a head start to the type of thing you are suggesting.

    Question is: can we learn any lessons from Norway. Should we take example from our Viking cousins and approach them with a view to jointly discovering and harnessing new natural resources under our sea beds ?

    They (the Norwegians) are coming to the end of some of their fields in the North Sea.
    But they have both the money and expertise and I feel sure would be keen to join with a fellow friendly European country in exploring and developing new gas/oil/ and possibly mineral territories.

    It would seem like a win/win situation for both our countries.

    How about it ?

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    Politics.ie Member bkeith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigris Celtica View Post
    When Norway discovered oil and gas off its coast, it promptly Semi/Nationalized it.
    Bringing in experts from Multinational Oil companies, it founded
    Statoil and used its resources to build it's own economy - Including the revenue earned by Statoil in Ireland.

    Ireland is the only country in the world that gave it's
    Oil/Gas resources away for NOTHING.
    Yes, we will get Corporation Tax similar to that which we
    receive from any Multinational, but the raw resource is given to Shell for nothing.
    The man who signed this economically suicidal agreement?
    Zanu Fianna Fáil's Ray Burke, the only Minister (so far)to be given
    a jail sentence for fraud.

    This so called "governing" of this country is such a sick joke !!!
    There are about 30 billion cubic metres in the Corrib field. To give an idea of what that's worth in bulk, Russia wants to charge Ukraine €180 per 1000 square metre of natural gas - that's about €5.4 billion of gas. Every year the USA produces 600 billion cubic metres, and Russia about 700 billion cubic metres. We are currently borrowing €20billion a year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bkeith View Post
    There are about 30 billion cubic metres in the Corrib field. To give an idea of what that's worth in bulk, Russia wants to charge Ukraine €180 per 1000 square metre of natural gas - that's about €5.4 billion of gas. Every year the USA produces 600 billion cubic metres, and Russia about 700 billion cubic metres. We are currently borrowing €20billion a year.

    Lets not forget that if Ray Burke gave it away "For nothing" why wasn't there a stampede of Oil and Gas companies hoping to fill their boots? There has only been 23 exploratory wells drilled by Oil and Gas companies off the Irish coast. Now wave energy! if the technology can be developed to make it a cost effective way of producing electricity then Ireland can fill its boots. Unfortunately that technology is the guts of a decade away if not more.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by bkeith View Post
    There are about 30 billion cubic metres in the Corrib field. To give an idea of what that's worth in bulk, Russia wants to charge Ukraine €180 per 1000 square metre of natural gas - that's about €5.4 billion of gas.
    Square metres of gas ? I'm not sure what your €5.4 billion valuation is meant to refer to.

  7. #7
    Politics.ie Member wombat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigris Celtica View Post
    Ireland is the only country in the world that gave it's
    Oil/Gas resources away for NOTHING.

    What Oil?

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    What Oil?
    Don't be a fool - To anyone with reasonable intelligence the statement obviously applies to Gas in the case of Ireland and Gas and/or Oil in the case of other countries.

  9. #9
    Politics.ie Member wombat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigris Celtica View Post
    Don't be a fool - To anyone with reasonable intelligence the statement obviously applies to Gas in the case of Ireland and Gas and/or Oil in the case of other countries.
    Oil and gas are not interchangeable, oil is far easier to exploit and transport, it is far more valuable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bkeith View Post
    There are about 30 billion cubic metres in the Corrib field. To give an idea of what that's worth in bulk, Russia wants to charge Ukraine €180 per 1000 square metre of natural gas - that's about €5.4 billion of gas. Every year the USA produces 600 billion cubic metres, and Russia about 700 billion cubic metres. We are currently borrowing €20billion a year.
    Current prices are about $140 per thousand cubic metres on the open market (rather than over the Russian barrel, so to speak), which gives a value of about €2.92bn for the whole field currently.

    That's the value of the field, though, without any costs involved in production. Yeah, it would keep us going for a week or so, and piss off the entire oil industry, who would then factor in the risks of nationalisation when it comes to exploring the Irish offshore. As it currently stands, we're due somewhere between 25% and 40% of the profits on the field with no risk. The Irish offshore, unlike the Norwegian sector of the North Sea, is very deep water, very bad weather conditions, unknown geology, small broken up fields, very limited discoveries - generally at the outer limits of both technology and economics. Further, when the Norwegians started in 1965, they took less tax than us - a 10% royalty on production, balanced against 9% income tax relief on corporate tax for onshore activities.

    Compared to the Norwegians, we're roughly where they were in 1965 - they only formed Statoil (in 1972) after the discovery of Ekofisk in 1969 and the identification of several other large prospects. Just to put Corrib in perspective, the Norwegian share alone of Ekofisk is estimated at 156 bn cu.m. of gas and 3.3 billion barrels of oil - the largest find in the history of the North Sea. If someone finds a prospect the size of Ekofisk in the Irish offshore, then it'll be time to talk about a national Irish oil company. At the moment, though, this is all just wishful thinking - there's no magic money tree out there.
    Never let the best be the enemy of the good.

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